New Destination Trail

[Tim Wegner]

Most of you know that I work from 2-3 years ahead of the time we do any trail design/construction.

So I am looking for some input from you as a rider. Respond to the following questions so I can make sure I am working in the right direction. I had made some contacts about building trails in an area that does not have many trails at this time. Looks like the contact may pay off, but before I make a committment I need to know "if we build it will they come."

The area has the potential for about 40-50 miles of trails. Some would be beginner, some intermediate, some expert and maybe an opportunity for a terrain park with stunts. The land is about 1.5-2 hours from the metro (no it is not in Duluth) has about 1800 acres of water and 3200 acres of buildable land. There would be opportunity for other activities besides mountain biking, Fishing, swimming, scuba diving, Kayaking, canoeing hiking and camping are all activities that could be conducted at this location.

The problem (you knew it had to have one) is that there is not good base of mountain bikers in this area. So the questions that I am asking are:
1. Would you travel 1-2 hours to ride in a location I described?
2. If you did visit what other activities including the ones I listed would you be interested in at the location (there is a major town nearby for beer etc.)
3. Would you stary for more than one day?
4. How long would you stay?
5. Would you camp?
6. Would you stay in a hotel?
7. Would you be willing to help MORC build this trail?

I have told the person in charge that what mountain bikers want are:
fun challenging trails
good water to drink
a place to camp
a place to shower
a place for food and beverages
a place to get bike parts.

Since we are beginning to wind down the season here I thought this might get everyones' juices flowing and create some outstanding discussion. Let me assure you, the opportunity is very very real. The actual start time may be 2 years in the future(only because it will take that long to get the financing nailed down) This could become the next MDH, only with water you can swim in and not walk upon. Some of you know the location but lets keep it a secret for a month of so just to keep everyone guessing!! Maybe John L. could give a prize out for the first person to figure it out.

Let everyone know what you think. Maybe we can get our IMBA report card rating increased to an A within the next couple of years.

TW

[TML]

Sounds very cool Tim! Hopefully it'll go through and we can garner the manpower to bring it to fruition.

1. Would you travel 1-2 hours to ride in a location I described?
Yes. Realistically would probably only make it there twice in a season.

2. If you did visit what other activities including the ones I listed would you be interested in at the location (there is a major town nearby for beer etc.)
Hiking, Fly-fishing, camping, hitting the beverage centers post ride with the group.

3. Would you stary for more than one day?
Would probably make it an overnight trip. But it's definitely close enough for a day trip.

4. How long would you stay?

5. Would you camp?
Camping close by would really be a plus.

6. Would you stay in a hotel?
Would more than likely camp but having a hotel/decent motel near is very nice as well.
7. Would you be willing to help MORC build this trail?
Yes. Full work days. Scheduled in advance.

[iceskier]

I would have to second all of Troy's answers. Sounds very cool!!!

[Aaroneous]

Abso-freakin'-lutely! :D If a magical mtb fairy-land such as you described existed within 2hrs of the city, I'd be out there probably once a month all season! Camping, swimming and 40+mi of quality trail? How could I stay away?!?

To answer your questions in order:
1) YES!
2) I love the idea of all those various activities combined with an emphasis on mtbing - I would definitely fish, swim & drink beer while I camp after a full day of biking. And I have a lot of friends that are serious canoe campers, so I'm sure they would love someplace a little closer (if it was cool) than the f-in' Gunflint Trail to shove off from for weekend jaunts & whatnot...
3) & 4) Oh yeah! I'd drive out Friday after work (or take it off), set up camp, ride all day Sat & Sun, and head back Sun nite... Perfect weekend trip!
5) There's no way you could stop me.
6) Probably not - If we're talkin' 2hrs away, I'd just drive home if we got rained out or injured or something. Although, I would pay extra $ for like a "camping cabin" like they have up by the BWCA...
7) Totally.

And yer list of "things mountain bikers want" is right on the money. I guess the only thing I might add is bike rental - it would be a good way to attract non-mtbers that might be interested, and make it more of a multi-sport outdoor family destination. Plus, (and I have no idea how this actually works, so feel free to laugh at me) I would assume that rental could bring in some sponsorship cash from either bike manufacturers or shops around town... Jeez, I had way too much caffeine this morning... Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing more! Good Luck!

[gopherhockey]

7. Would you be willing to help MORC build this trail?
Yes. Full work days. Scheduled in advance.I think this question is one worth a lot of attention. We can have 10 acres or 10,000 acres of land given to us for trails, but if we don't have regular crews showing up it won't be much of a destination.

Lebanon is just 80 acres, and its taken a crew of 20+ weekly to build and maintain the trails.

We're talking a significant amount of labor needed here at a place where trails don't already exist. We've struggled getting help in locations like that even in the metro.

A project this size (may) also distract resources from our local trails as well.

These are all thoughts I just want to bring up for discussion to see what people think.

I personally would be willing to go up and help train a crew and perhaps do a day of trailwork here or there, but would expect someone (perhaps locally) to pick up and take it from there. I'd probably ride it a couple times a year.. realistically thinking we have a place like Levis just 2-3 hours away that is gorgeous riding and I've only been there once in the last 2 years. (something I need to work on - perhaps group trip rides!)

Its important that people realize the impact this can have. I think some believe that MORC can magically transfer the magic that happens at current trail projects to other locations. I think MORC needs a clear plan for expanding outside the metro for this to really work well.

I think it can happen and I'd be excited about a place like this, but also I'm cautiously optimistic about its chances and the challenges a project like this might place on trail projects in our (current project) area. This and what it might do to projects such as the ski area we discussed that would be in the south.

I want to stress I'm not trying to be a downer here. I only want people to realize that trails like this don't happen overnight. I've seen frustration here locally over turnout of volunteers and do not want to have to continue seeing expectations being higher than they should be. It will be a real challenge for the trail steward and dirt boss(es) in this area - it will take more than cupcakes & beer to attract regulars I think ;) (ok, maybe not! hehe)

[GearDaddy]

Great! Especially if there are other facilities that would entertain the rest of my family.


1. Would you travel 1-2 hours to ride in a location I described?
Yes, as a day trip just for myself to ride. Also, for overnights and weekends with a larger group.


2. If you did visit what other activities including the ones I listed would you be interested in at the location (there is a major town nearby for beer etc.)
It makes sense to me that the camping facilities would come first. If my family or just myself were to stay overnight, having a swimming beach would be awesome, followed by hiking or canoeing. I've never done kayaking, but always wanted to.


3. Would you stary for more than one day?
4. How long would you stay?
5. Would you camp?
Yep. Overnight by myself or weekend with the whole family.


6. Would you stay in a hotel?
Probably not. But if there was enough fun for the whole family for more than a day or two, then I would consider it.


7. Would you be willing to help MORC build this trail?
OK, you caught me. I've haven't contributed much in this area. But, I'd be willing to step up to the plate for some great trails (Oh! the guilt).

It kind of sounds like Levis/Trow, as there is a nice family campground with swimming beach just down the road. It's also comparable in my mind to going to some State Parks (like Devil's Lake in Wisconsin for the camping/hiking/swimming/climbing). Unfortunately, Most State Parks in Minnesota/Wisconsin have squat for good MTB riding.

I'm guessing that the trail development would be analogous to CAMBA's efforts to build new trail, i.e. maybe 5-10 miles of trail added per year if you keep it up. If so, it will be awhile before I would consider this an MTB destination. But if these other things like camping, swimming beach and etc. were there, then I'd come anyway. How's the road riding in the area? If OK, I'd spend some time doing that too.

Thanks for the good work.

[Trevize1138]

What would really make this a destination trail like the MDH would be if it were not a loop, but instead 50 miles out-and-back. I would DEFINITELY travel a measly 1 1/2 hours to pack up the bob, ride 50 miles of singletrack the first day, camp at the far end the first night, pack up the next morning and bike 50 miles back to the car. :)

[hockeynut]

1. Would you travel 1-2 hours to ride in a location I described?

Yes, yes I would. Maybe a few times a year if it was really sweet. Though to be fair, I travel an hour to get to Terrace Oaks or Lebanon Hills...

2. If you did visit what other activities including the ones I listed would you be interested in at the location (there is a major town nearby for beer etc.)

Hiking trails (preferably seperate from the biking trails), canoe and kayak rental, swimming beach.

3. Would you stay for more than one day?

Maybe once a year or so (depending on the layout, quality of trails and other activities)

4. How long would you stay?

Long weekend probably, or two days


5. Would you camp?

Yes. Hopefully the campsites would be State Parkish (at least the ones I've been to) ie Large, flat, fire pit, picnic tables, , shade trees, nice bathrooms and showers etc.

6. Would you stay in a hotel?

Probably not.

7. Would you be willing to help MORC build this trail?

If the dates were on a weekend, then I would help out, though I hesitate to guarantee that I'd make every session.


Depending on what direction this land would be in from the Cities, I could probably commit to riding it more and helping out more, since it could be about an hour from me max. Then again, it could be 4 hours away, so might be harder to help out as much as I would like.

[Tim Wegner]

OK--I will let everyone in on my vision for the area. First off thanks for everyones input. The area we have been discussing is named "Cuyuna Recreation Area." It is on the Northern border of Ironton located between Crosby and Brainerd. The land is owned or managed by Minnesota DNR. The lakes are actually old mine pits. The water depth ranges from 125' to 550' in depth. Water clarity is 80 feet at 10' below the surface. The highest elevation is around 225 feet. The elevation is actually the old spoil banks form the iron ore mining. My inspection of the soils showed that it should compact and bind together extremely well. Not as hard as clay but harder than most mineral soils that we build with here in the metro. So I think maintenance would be very minimal.


Here is my thoughts on construction. First off have the financing in place before we do a single thing. I thought maybe IRRRB, Blandin foundation, DNR, TEA-21, state parks, county, these could all be sources of funding for this trail. Last thing I want to have happen is the trail get started and then we run out of money to complete the job.

I would like to have the design work done locally by mountain bikers. Then I would invite all the IMBA approved trail builders to come up 1-2 weeks of trail building. I think we could get this trail built in 1-2 years max.

So lets have more thoughts and ideas on what I have posted here. Do you think I should continue to pursue this area or is it pie in the sky? You guys are the ones that would ride it and enjoy it but first off you guys must be the ones building it. I know I can find the money to do this project but money without any volunteers would still make the project a failure.
TW

[nigel]

OK--I will let everyone in on my vision for the area. First off thanks for everyones input. The area we have been discussing is named "Cuyuna Recreation Area." It is on the Northern border of Ironton located between Crosby and Brainerd. The land is owned or managed by Minnesota DNR. The lakes are actually old mine pits. The water depth ranges from 125' to 550' in depth. Water clarity is 80 feet at 10' below the surface. The highest elevation is around 225 feet. The elevation is actually the old spoil banks form the iron ore mining. My inspection of the soils showed that it should compact and bind together extremely well. Not as hard as clay but harder than most mineral soils that we build with here in the metro. So I think maintenance would be very minimal.


Here is my thoughts on construction. First off have the financing in place before we do a single thing. I thought maybe IRRRB, Blandin foundation, DNR, TEA-21, state parks, county, these could all be sources of funding for this trail. Last thing I want to have happen is the trail get started and then we run out of money to complete the job.

I would like to have the design work done locally by mountain bikers. Then I would invite all the IMBA approved trail builders to come up 1-2 weeks of trail building. I think we could get this trail built in 1-2 years max.

So lets have more thoughts and ideas on what I have posted here. Do you think I should continue to pursue this area or is it pie in the sky? You guys are the ones that would ride it and enjoy it but first off you guys must be the ones building it. I know I can find the money to do this project but money without any volunteers would still make the project a failure.
TW
Tim this sounds like a tremendously great idea, Im all for it! I think we should look at what we have going on at the moment and in the immediate future around here and elsewhere with trails first. As you said, money with no volunteers will be tough. I dont want us to have to much going on at once and be spread so thin nothing gets done correctly by being done hastily. If there are groups in that immediate area willing to work on it then lets get started! This will for sure be a great destination and help put us on the map for mtn biking more than we already are!

Douglas

[funky-funky-chicken]

Sounds like it could be a great opportunity for a "destination" type area for Minnesota. I would like to think that I would travel to such an area to ride, but realistically I am not sure how often I would be able to get there. Based on the location, I think that the Cuyuna Recreation Area is more like 2 to 2.5 hours, maybe even more. (Within that distance, I would be more likely drive up to the CAMBA trails. Similar distance, already established.) I would be unlikely to make a daytrip.

It might draw/build more interest from people/members from other areas of the state too. (Put more of Minnesota instead of metro in MORC.) Saint Cloud, Duluth? I would imagine it would be difficult to maintain something so far away with members from the TC area. Once built, maintaining the actual trail might not be bad, but dealing with keeping the trail from becoming over-grown might be a challenge.

I see based on the DNR website that there are already established camping facilities nearby including a group campsite. The group campsite could facilitate a large MORC member weekend type group event, ride, and trail building blitz. (I'd be game for attending such.)

Would I contribute much to the local economy?... maybe to reload a cooler or grab a bite to eat but I am more likely to bring my own refreshments and supplies with for a camping weekend. I would be very unlikely to spend a night in a hotel.

[Kingbozo]

The area we have been discussing is named "Cuyuna Recreation Area." It is on the Northern border of Ironton located between Crosby and Brainerd.


A whopping 12.5 miles from my family's cabin!

It is no more than a two hour drive, although traffic on 169 can get pretty heavy.

It takes the same amount of time to get there from Duluth.

There are already tons of people all over that region during the summer, so it wouldn't be an "isolated" getaway.

Crosby is a good sized town. Aitkin and Deerwood are nearby but both are pretty small. I'm not familiar with Ironton at all.

I haven't been getting to the cabin much the past few years, but this certainly would get my butt up there.

[TML]

OK--I will let everyone in on my vision for the area. First off thanks for everyones input. The area we have been discussing is named "Cuyuna Recreation Area." It is on the Northern border of Ironton located between Crosby and Brainerd. TW
Tim and all,

This is a great area! I've ridden around here numerous times and posted somethng about it last summer I believe. Lots of potential here. You could build quite the trail system with quite a mix of terrain. The combination of tailing pile "mountains" and mine pit "lakes" makes for very interesting scenery. It's already a destination for the SCUBA crowd. There are also some areas nearby that are used by the off road/moto crowd. There's some pretty neat stuff there as well.

The area gets quite a bit of use from people camping and recreating in general but our challenge would be to drum up enough hype about it to make it into a destination where enough people would use the trails to keep the growth down. Like what Ken was saying. Maybe it could be a shared use hiker/biker trail to increase user base?

The area is only a few minutes from Brainerd and the Brainerd area is gaining population so that's good.

And for what it's worth- The BBQ/Smokehouse joint in Ironton is 2h10min from my house in Shoreview. 30min from my cabin north of Emily. :D

Looking forward to hearing more about it.

[noise_is_life]

This sounds very cool, I would certain do weekend trips up there. We would either camp or stay in a hotel depending on our mood. My wife kayak too, so there would be a reason to go up there besides just biking, so I would have a better chance of getting my wife to come along.

I would certainly be willing to come help out with building trail up there too.

[gopherhockey]

I think before we even go after finances we should figure out who is going to be doing the building. I've heard some positive feedback on this, but I'm guessing most people aren't talking about being "regulars" at trail work. I think we need a specific list of who will build it and who will maintain it on-going, even perhaps identifying a trail steward and dirt bosses.

We need to identify local trail support in one of our intial steps.... perhaps even having a MORC chapter in the area as well. If we are going to rely on local volunteers to build at all we'd need a more accurate count. Being so far away the sessions would need to be planned well ahead of time. I really don't think we could pull this off using our own local volunteer base.

Lastly I'd say that it is good we're discussing these points. Tim has done some real good work here identifying an area and scoping it out. (you rock Tim!) We owe it to Tim and MORC to talk this out and be honest about it. With the right plan it could be really cool. I think we're on the right track here.

[noise_is_life]

Hmmm, Troy has a cabin 30 minutes away, that sounds like a volunteer to me. :)

[TML]

Hmmm, Troy has a cabin 30 minutes away, that sounds like a volunteer to me. :)Volunteer base camp. :) Under construction as of yet though. . .


John has a very valid point. We would definitely need coordination with a group of volunteers from the local area. If we established that, then the probability of it succeeding is much greater.

[stewbie_won]

Hello all... I grew up and went to high school in Brainerd before more recently moving down to the TC area. I can tell you for sure that there is a very large mountain biking following in the area, we just never have any good trails to ride on. We always get stuck riding old snowmobile trails in Pillsbury State forest, with 3 foot high grass to barrel through. I imagine the plans for building will be around what is called French Rapids, which is a cross country ski area by winter, and some people mountain bike out there in the summer, although these trails are at best double track, and actually even wider then that in some spots. The area would be excellent for building singletrack trail. It would be good not only for biking but for many other activities that people would want to do also. I would suggest putting ads out to the local bike shops in brainerd to try to recruit people into trail building. Some shops are Trailblazers and Easy Riders. There are a few others also. I live at my cabin in the summer in nisswa which is 10 miles north of brainerd and would also be more than willing to help build some bitchin trails all throughout this summer, or whenever plans start to get underway. I also know all of the local riders from brainerd, who are always forced to go to places like Milaca at best for some semi decent singletrack, and could help in the recruiting process if necessary, or could just be a primary source for getting people psyched about the possibility opf some awesome trails in the area. Trust me, if word gets out, people in the area will help. We have been looking for this sort of thing for a lot of years, there just has not really been an effort to try to get things rolling, especially since it is a few hours drive from the metro. anyway. Rock On. And get the word out!!!

[noise_is_life]

I have a friend with a cabin in Outing too. It seems like that is only about 25 minutes from there. I might have to invite myself for lots of visits once this thing starts to happen.

[Trevize1138]

Wow, great info, Stew! Sounds like there's a lot of hungry bikers in the area. We'll definitely have to capitolize on that!

Hello all... I grew up and went to high school in Brainerd before more recently moving down to the TC area. I can tell you for sure that there is a very large mountain biking following in the area, we just never have any good trails to ride on. We always get stuck riding old snowmobile trails in Pillsbury State forest, with 3 foot high grass to barrel through. I imagine the plans for building will be around what is called French Rapids, which is a cross country ski area by winter, and some people mountain bike out there in the summer, although these trails are at best double track, and actually even wider then that in some spots. The area would be excellent for building singletrack trail. It would be good not only for biking but for many other activities that people would want to do also. I would suggest putting ads out to the local bike shops in brainerd to try to recruit people into trail building. Some shops are Trailblazers and Easy Riders. There are a few others also. I live at my cabin in the summer in nisswa which is 10 miles north of brainerd and would also be more than willing to help build some bitchin trails all throughout this summer, or whenever plans start to get underway. I also know all of the local riders from brainerd, who are always forced to go to places like Milaca at best for some semi decent singletrack, and could help in the recruiting process if necessary, or could just be a primary source for getting people psyched about the possibility opf some awesome trails in the area. Trust me, if word gets out, people in the area will help. We have been looking for this sort of thing for a lot of years, there just has not really been an effort to try to get things rolling, especially since it is a few hours drive from the metro. anyway. Rock On. And get the word out!!!

[FSSS]

Tim-
Who will use the trail? MTBing only? Just hikers and bikers?

There are a LOT more ORV, ATV and motocross users up in that neck of the woods. Not to mention horses.

[soupboy]

...any topo maps available? I found this link:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/maps/tomo.html?col=253&row=459&layer=24k&size=7 (http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/cuyuna_country/index.html)

Pretty cool looking area. Betcha you could make some interesting trails. I think you could make this happen.

I suggest a fundraiser to gauge "buy in". Would also grease the skids for gov't funding sources if the riders showed interest in cash, and sweat, equity.

18.7 miles due NE from Brainerd to Cuyuna proper (per Yah-hooooo-ooo). 150 miles from mi casa in SLP. Sorta in between Levis Trow or Cable - roughly - but it would be OURS, not the Cheeseheads!

Sean

[thebionicman]

I would have to agree with John here. The biggest problem is going to get volunteers to help build and maintain this trail. I hope the people in Brainerd are ready to throw in on this. We sometimes have problems getting people to help out on the local trails, let alone driving 2 hours to get somewhere to build.

That said I am in. I would be up for driving up there for a weekend here and there, most likely camping. I will have to do some weekend trips to some of the other locations here in the Midwest this next summer. Heck I grew up in the U.P. and I haven't ridden the cool trails up there.

Here is some more topo stuff:
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=46.4925&lon=-93.9579&s=100&size=s&symshow=n&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25
Looks pretty cool.

[FSSS]

Another question for ya Tim-

How interested are the Brainerd Area locals?

I agree with some of the others - I think local support is one of the major "make or break" issues.

[ryno lite]

I'd being willing to help. I'll be honest though, you'd probably only get me up once or twice a year for trailbuilding. It's too far to count on me as a regular up there. If we did do it, I'd prefer it to be scheduled in advance and a full weekend of work so that it would be worth the drive.

Just so I can visualize the topography, what is the highest elevation of Lebanon and Murphy? Just wondering how the 225' compares to our local parks.

As far as traveling there to ride, you could probably count me in 1-3 times a season, that's how often I get to Cable to ride. I like to camp primarily, but hotels are a nice option. I really enjoy hiking as another option, maybe even backcountry sites for backpacking or bike packing overnights.

It sounds like a great idea, but I will also agree that most of us in the TC area can only help so much. I think we need a dedicated group of locals and cabin owners to help out.

[stewbie_won]

How interested are the Brainerd Area locals?

I agree with some of the others - I think local support is one of the major "make or break" issues.[/QUOTE]
People up there have been wanting a good trail to ride on for years, i think if the word gets out, there will be lots of people that would be willing to throw in. As for the coments about ATV and horses, there are an exceptional amount of ATV and horse back riding trails that are up there... Most of the ATV trails are ATV only, and there are plenty that are non motorized, so i dont think that would be an issue. As for horses, there are also a lot of trails designated for horseback riding. i think that if people knew that the trail that we are building is a mountain bike trail i dont think anyone would want to go out and ride on it

[Tim Wegner]

Great discussions. I would see the construction done by some of the IMBA approved trail building companies. Most of them do finish work as well. That means the cost gets quite a bit higher than what we finish with volunteers that is why we need to have the funding in place before we dig in the dirt. I don't think the area will need a lot of maintenance. The soils are great and I don't think it will get nearly the use of Leb. So I think one weekend per year with a group of 25-40 would take care of the problems areas. I agree that the locals will need to step up to the plate and take this trail as their own but I think that as fellow mountain bikers we could help them one weekend per year.

I was in St. Cloud tonight at a presentationf or the Plum Creek trail project. (It went very well.) I asked one of the movers and shakers behind the Plum Creek Trail if their group would be willing to help with this trail. She responded very positively. I have not had a chance to ask anyone in the Brainerd area yet. (you guys do know that I have another real job besides IMBA don't you?) That is one of my goals to get up there sometime in the next couple of months to discuss this area with some of them.

The trails would be used by bikers, hikers, trail runners. All non motorized user could use these trails except possibly equestrians. The DNR has been working hard to keep motorized users out of this area. They have a full time enforcement officer maintaining the rules. Granted some people will go in and run the ATV's around the area. Again when we build these trails they are narrow and twisty enough that an ATV cannot use the trail. Also as we have found out when legitmate use comes in to an area the illeagal users move elsewhere.

A lot has to come together before this will happen. And I will make sure all those components are in place before I ask for a committment form MORC.
TW

[Brick]

...any topo maps available?
Try this map. (http://www.skypoint.com/%7Eenevala/Crosby.JPG)

[martini]

but it would be OURS, not the Cheeseheads!

Sean

Hey! fokoff man...:D

dammit. I was hoping you were talking something down by the Winona/La Crescent area...at least that woulda been close to me. Brainerd is pretty damned far.

Need a quick topo? Go to www.maptech.com go to onlline maps, then map server and enter the spot you're looking for.

[stewbie_won]

Hey tim.....Any new info on this "New destination trail" as of late??? I heard from my friend who works at easy riders in Brainerd that you stopped in awhile back to ask some questions. Any new info????

[Tim Wegner]

We have a meeting scheduled with Minnesota DNR for early January to discuss plans, financing etc. Will keep everyone posted as time goes by. The time line on this trail is 2-3 years before dirt is moved and we have ridable trail. Shorter if good things come together. However, I have learned that anything with government organizations takes longer than what we originally planned.
TW

[JSkater127]

the place you described my home trails at kickapoo state park in illinois. that place rocks i love camping and riding for the weekend. fishing and kayaking is also lots of fun and should attract many people. keep us updated on this.


thanks
james.

[EmL34]

TIm, et al.

THe contact I mentioned a couple of weeks back is with a firm called Short Elliott Henderson. They are some former IRRRB guys who left the board to consult and contract. They do large projects for a variety of governmental organizations.

When I mentioned that we had builders in mind the conversation was not as mutually interesting, though they did mention possibly being able to help out with some exertise in funding. Thye also felt that they had a great deal of experience and expertise in trails. I just nodded, not wanting to bring it up.

Basically, I was not confident that it would be worthwhile to continue discussing the project with them. But I do have contact info.

[Tim Wegner]

Eric

If you don't mind I would like to have the info. We may need to utilize some local guys just to make sure that everyone gets a piece of the pie and makes the process move along better.
TW

[jitterjepp]

I spent my last year of high school in Brainerd. My parents still live up there in the township of Pillager about 10 miles west of Brainerd and they work in Brainerd.

If you could run a trail through the Crosy/Ironton mine area (which I believe is now owned by the city of Ironton) it could get pretty interesting.

There used to be some trails up that way. Many of them were on private land though. A few mountain bikers used them but they grew up and moved to the city so the trails are all grow over now. There is a much bigger population up there now then there was when I was up there (almost two decades ago!!) The Brainerd area population pretty much goes from about 20,000 to 100,000 plus the day fishing season starts until the middle of August. I think a trail could really work up there.

[Pandl]

My grandpa's cabin is near Pillager, on Long Lake#3. Haven't been there in years. Always went as a kid. Parents cabin is on Cross Lake. Haven't been there in years either. But, if a trail went in up there, it would be more incentive to go that way. Our cabin is in WI.

[Beau]

Why did I NOT hear about this?????? I have ridden the Crosby pits for years! There are tons of thrails and lots of crazy stunts to be ridden here. I grew up in Brainerd, and rode the mine pits for a looooooong time.

The lakes are probably the cleanest lakes in Minnesota. It makes for a wondeful place to ride, and scrub off when your done riding. The ore leaves some really bad stains on you and your stuff though. Don;t plan on wearing anything that you want to be clean. It also makes camping a real blast. Your tents will be covered in the red dust.

Aside form that, there are a lot of wide trails, and very little singletrack. You can follow a old railroad bed to Ironton, and eventually to a small town called Riverton. In Riverton there are a ton of singletrack trails that are very technical, but used heavily by enduro riders. From there you can ride more snowmobile trails to the area Stewy was talking about, which is French Rapids. This area has been slowly deteriorating due to very little use. I beleive it has also been clear cut for the airport expansion.

I'd love to see this area develop. I was asked to host a race a there few years back, but nothing ever came of it. There is a lot of steep drops and crazy stuff to scare you. Most of the hills are rutted from ATV and Dirtbike riders, but it adds to the fun (I believe the DNR ahs been chasing them out though).

There are a few downfalls. Frist, locals have made this their stomping grounds for many years, and I don't think it will be easy to stop that. A lot of the local people LIVE there in the Summer. Second, the iron ore may scare a few of the riders away, it really is a PITA. Third, there is already a ton of damage to be fixxed. Fourth, there are a million different backroads and entries, so stopping atv's, dirtbikes and big trucks will be tough, and last, the place NEVER dries up. There is always water holes and muddy sections.

To bad I no longer live in the area, but if something develops,I'm in for sure, and I know I can get a bunch of others to help. Also try to contact the Paul Bunyan Cyclists at www.paulbunyancyclists.com (http://www.paulbunyancyclists.com) . It's our local bike club. They also put on the Tour of Lakes road ride once a year.

There Are two shops in Brainerd that would probably help out too. My old employer, Chuck at Trailblazer Bikes 218-829-8542, and the other shop Ken at Easy Riders 218-829-5516 (??).

If you would ever like a tour of the ENTIRE area, let me know and I would be happy to show anyone around. It's really easy to get lost in there.

Please keep me informed!!! Beau

[Tim Wegner]

Just an update. DNR is in favor of these trails being developed. The water problems that are mentioned in the previous post are a result of the trails being built at the lowest point in the area. We would follow sustaianable construction guidelines to eliminate that problem.

Yes, the locals consider this their own private area. DNR, interested in making this a destination for families, has hired a full time enforcement officer to help eliminate the undesired use of the area. If our project happens and more people seek this area as a destination the undesired activity moves. That has been our experience in other places that we have built trails.

The only major hurdle to overcome at this time is $$$$$$$$$$$$. Yup lots of $ signs. Using IMBA pricing guidelines for finished trails @ $11,000 per mile and plans for a 45-50 mile trail, well you do the math. One reason the cost per mile is higher than what it is in the metro area is volunteers. Most of the trails we build here are either all volunteers or the finish work is done by volunteers. Brainerd area does not have an organized group of volunteers---yet. I think if this project gets feet, the volunteer base will come along quickly.

You may not have heard of this project simply because it is still in the infancy stage. We first became aware of the potential for a trail in this area in November but we are moving along trying to get the support built up before we try to do anything else.

The city of Brainerd and MORC has applied for funding to be part of the federal highway budget. Through Oberstars office a funding request is being added for $750,000. I will be going to Washington DC in April to lobby for inclusion of this request to get this project off the ground and completed in 4 years. The total request will not only include trails costs but infrastructure costs as well. Costs of upgrading the campground, running water for HOT showers as well as toilets with running water not just pit toilets.

This is my most ambitious trail plan to date. I am defintely working in an area where my expertise of negotiating will be stretched. I know there are other funding sources out there but not exactly sure what they are at this point. This is where you guys come in and help point us in the right direction. Any suggestions will be valued.

Again, I believe that if this project happens the area will become a destination for families and others that want to have a place to ride for an extended time without covering the same trail again and again.

I would like to thank everyone for their encouragment on this project. Special thanks to the board of MORC. They are funding my trip to Washington and have endorsed this project as one they will support. So if your excuse for not joining MORC has been "they are metro only" it time to change your way of thinking!! MORC has projects going in many areas that are non metro and will benefit people outside the metro area.

Join MORC---it is the best advocacy group available for mountain bikers!

Tim Wegner

[Kingbozo]

It can't hurt that Oberstar is an avid cyclist.

[SickBoy]

Tim -

this may be a silly question, and call me ignorant, but I think this is pertinent:

1. Shops in the area - Are there any? Have they been approached about this project? Are any within close driving distance (like ~10 mins) of the proposed site or be willing to move closer?

2. Would a said shop be willing to contribute to the trail building effort, either in terms of $$$ or volunteer hands? I am thinking of like a Sedona Bike and Bean situation - located close to the trails and they could build a connector trail starting from their front door that would latch into the main destination trail system. Said shop could also take on the task of renting bikes should they choose, which is usually a profitable venture in "destination" trail areas. And sell coffee of course. :cheesy:

Just a brain fart on my part...

[Tim Wegner]

I have visited with one of the shops in Brainerd. They like the idea of trails at Cuyuna. Did not ask for financial support too early in the process. I did have discussion with one lady at city hall of Crosby and she had been planning on setting up a rental shop there with bikes, canoes and Kayaks, this was before we talked about trails in the area.

Just for everyone's information, I am not the only one working on this project. Erik Gerrits, Dale Gundberg and Kurt Lange are all helping me with this project. It just seems as I have the most time available right now. These other guys are integral to the success of this project so if you have any ideas you can also run them past the other guys as well.

Tim Wegner

[Beau]

I don't think you'll get much funding out of the shops up there. The season is short for them. A lot of the avid mountain bikers up there have moved away, typical small town syndrom.

The place is used quite heavily right now in the summer. Most of the camps sites that are set up are filled by Friday evening usually. As mentioned before, it is a VERY popular scuba diving place in Minnesota.

As far as building trails is concerned, it is pretty hard to make new trails out there. Most of the ground is extremely hard packed, or rock. But, once a trail is made, the ground packs super hard, and the trails are really fast. Many of the areas around the pits are pretty sandy though.

Also, make sure you cantact the Paul Bunyan Cyclists. Dan Cruiser is a member and is also from the Crosby area. I'm sure they would be will to help out, and have connections with other nearby clubs that I'm sure would lend a hand.

As far as the water problems, there are really only two otions out there. High or low. It's not really a rolling hill landscape. The hills that are out there are small, and usually steep on all sides, really steep. But the water holes could make for some fun ladder work!

:banana: I'm sooo stoked about this!

[Beau]

I have visited with one of the shops in Brainerd. They like the idea of trails at Cuyuna. Did not ask for financial support too early in the process. I did have discussion with one lady at city hall of Crosby and she had been planning on setting up a rental shop there with bikes, canoes and Kayaks, this was before we talked about trails in the area.

Just for everyone's information, I am not the only one working on this project. Erik Gerrits, Dale Gundberg and Kurt Lange are all helping me with this project. It just seems as I have the most time available right now. These other guys are integral to the success of this project so if you have any ideas you can also run them past the other guys as well.

Tim Wegner

Now that I think about it, how long ago did you visit the shop in Brainerd? I think you may have talked to my old boss???....and maybe even me!

[Tim Wegner]

I believe the visit was this fall in November or early December.

TW

[ppgc]

Looks like this is moving forward...

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5349325.html

My favorite part...

---
But critics of the earmarking process say it is susceptible to the whims of elected officials. Oberstar, for example, is an avid bicyclist; nearly $27 million of his earmarks are for projects that involve bike paths such as the Paul Bunyan Trail in Bemidji.
"It's irresponsible to spend $27 million on bike paths when we have families stuck in traffic all over the metro area and many unsafe rural roads," said Rep. Mark Kennedy, R-Minn. "It's time for Washington to set and stick to some spending priorities."

Oberstar says there's no shame in bike trails, noting that they are an integral part of northern Minnesota's growing tourism economy.
----

Any of you Mark Kennedy fans want to tell him you like biking too? (not trying to start a political discussion)

[Tim Wegner]

Just an update on this trail status. The funding to construct this multi-use trail was included as a part of the high priorities transportation bill. The bill passed the house, and is on the senate side right now. The bill has passed the senate committee side and is now waiting for the full senate to vote on the funding. We are very confident that this funding will come through to build an awesome trail in some really beautiful country.

Only one major hurdle to cross on this one. MORC will have to come up with $186,000 in matching funds in order to make this one happen. This is one of the most ambitious projects yet for MORC and will really test the strength of this organization.

So if you don't know what to do with your tax refund---give MORC a call, we have a great place for you to invest the cash!!!!!

TW

[Tim Wegner]

It is time for another update on the Cuyuna Recreation Area. The money for the trail has been approved all $700,000 of it. I have to cash match 20% of that amount. ( I may have found a source for the match but suggestions are welcome)

First off since this funding is coming from the fed highway department I must cross a lot of hurdles---A LOT OF HURDLES! I am getting a lot of help from MNDOT, DNR and State Parks. I would be lost without them guiding me along the way.

Here are the major hurdles:
1. Find an government agency willing to administer the grant. This has proven harder than one might think. None of these agencies have ever worked with a group like the mountain bikers. There are no real cut trail standards that are written out. I have standards in my head and picked up from trail schools etc but there is not a standard written on paper to which they can refer. I will have to write the standards. Oh and i think we found a government agency willing to administer the grant--State Parks.

2. Complete an EWA. Not too involved but will still take up time and money.

3. This one is funny. Have a professional civil engineer either design the trails or sign off on my trail design. (this one might be covered by state parks)

4. Complete a construction plan detailing all activity that will lead up to the beginning of construction.

5. Complete a time line study detailing when each phase of construction will occur.

I am sure there will be many more reports that willneed to be completed before this project is done.

Now for the really fun part. I have already identified 15-18 miles of trail. Will be going up again on November 3 to look at two other sections of the area. I found an area that will just blow everyone away when the trail is completed. It is about 500 acres in size, great elevation change, great soils that will stand up even better than the stuff at Lebanon, 1 incredible lake with awesome clarity and a trout fishery, about 500-600 rocks that are about 1/2 the size of a Volkswagon beetle and weigh several tons, a potential spine trail that is elevated above the surrounding area by about 6-8 feet that is 18 inches wide, an area with about 300 woops already in place just waiting for a trail to be put in place it goes on and on and on.

I know I have been mighty quiet on the forums lately but so far I have about 200 hours into this project and we haven't even touched the ground with design yet. It is hard to believe we started meeting with State Parks a little over a year ago on this project. Incredible amount of progress has been made with even more to complete. This brings me to the next subject---construction timeline.

I was hoping to break ground this coming spring or summer but that has been changed. There is no way I can get everything done and in place so we can begin construction in 2006. We WILL begin in early 2007 though! I just need more time to get all the reports submitted, the cash match done and all the little stuff that I know will keep giving some set backs.

By pushing the construction back a year it will remove a tremendous amount of stress from my life and I believe ultimately give us a better planned, more durable and challenging trail. The construction will take 4-5 years from beginning to end. Seems like a long time but believe me it will fly. My plan is to have 10-14 miles built per year once we begin construction. This will be completed trail that will be ready to ride as soon as that years construction is completed. I have spoken to Trail Solutions and they assured me that they will have no problem completeing 10 miles of finished trail in 30 days. I also asked them if they had a problem building trail on 75-80% side slope (that is really really steep) and they assured me that was no problem.

So for those of you that were anticipating something to ride in '06 I apologize for disappointing you. But just wanted everyone to know that we are moving forward, have taken great strides towards the goal and have gotten tremendous support and encouragement from people at the state government level.

Thanks for everyones support.
TW

[jitterjepp]

You are awesome!

[TB0NE]

I love you.

[SprocketHead]

One word: TOURISM!

If this becomes a "destination" trail, the potential is huge.

[FSSS]

I love you.

Tim - I think Travis speaks for all of us!

[Buck]

Heck yeah Tim, Thanks for all the hard work!!! I wondered why ya hadn't posted any updates in a while. :D Can't wait to get up there and check things out! :cool:

L8R
Buck

[Tim Wegner]

I can really feel the love right now. Thanks everyone. How about a BIG group hug.

What is really scarry about this is that I asked Buck to look at the trail with me on November 3rd. Since I will be up there on the 2nd for a meeting with the local bike group I invited him to stay in my room with me if he wanted to----he accepted. Maybe I will have to become a DH/FR guy!!!!
TW

[Magic]

Get ready to drink alot of RED BULL Tim. You're going to need it hanging around Buck. Thanks for all the work you do. And about that group hug................:)

[Buck]

Heck yeah, and I don't bring Red Bull by the can, I bring it by the case :D :banana:

L8R
Buck

[Little D]

Note to MORC members: Please check up on Tim on November 4th :)

[jzipfel]

2. Complete an EWA. Not too involved but will still take up time and money.

TW

Tim:

Do you mean EAW (environmental assesment worksheet)? If so, this is what I do. If so, I might be willing to do it pro bono?

As this moves foward and work with environmental agencies or health and safety type stuff give my a ring. I would be glad to donate time to this. Especially since I don't seem to find time to do trailwork.

[Burke]

Tim:

Do you mean EAW (environmental assesment worksheet)? If so, this is what I do. If so, I might be willing to do it pro bono?

He does mean environmental assessment worksheet.

Thanks for your offer. Once Tim gets back from the Quad Cities, I'm sure he'll be in touch with you.

Scott

[ryno lite]

Thanks Tim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Panman]

Thanks Tim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I very much so second all the love for Tim. Honesly, where would we be without him?

[Tim Wegner]

Thanks for everyone's response. Just returned from the Quad Cities and a 2.5 day board of directors meeting for American Trails. I appreciated the offer of the EAW @ reduced or pro bono!!!! I will keep the name in my files for reference as we move forward with state parks.

Lot of hurdles are falling out of our way as we move along here. Thanks to everyone for your support and willingness to contribute.
Tim

[Oddbjorn]

Great news. Keep us posted on how we can help up there as things progress. I heartily volunteer to help buff the trails with the tires of my Santa Cruz (and other work, as well. . .)!

[Buck]

Got back from CSRA.

Awesome terrain up there, no joke this place will rock. I don't even know what to say. the place was sic, awesome vistas, killer potential!!! I'll let Tim fill it in better, don't know if there is anything on the DL or what. But there are still come hurdles to jump over to make it all happen, I am really excited, it'd be a very, very, unique and fun place to have trails! Maybe Tim will show some of the pics he took, I got myself in to some rather precarious places, lolzies, all in the name of trails! hahahaha :banana:
L8R
Buck

[Tim Wegner]

Posted some pictures of the area in the gallery. What I have posted is only a very small portion of what we saw out there in the past 2 days.

I did survive 24 hours of Buck and Red Bull!!!

On Wednesday we headed to Ironton/Crosby and spend 4 hours walking much of the area. That night we had a meeting with the Paul Bunyon Cyclists and explained our vision for the area. Today we began our meeting at 8AM discussing other users at Cuyuna for the first hour and then spent the rest of the day until 2:30 hiking and looking at area where the trails will be built. Lot of local support and excitement for what we have planned. Shawn Roberts said there is a group of cyclists in the area that is interested in becoming a chapter of MORC so a lot of good things happened in the past 24 hours.

Tim Wegner

[bigwheel]

Thanks Tim and Buck. We really appreciate the work you guys are putting in.

[TML]

Awesome you guys!!

I'll be up in the area next weekend and will probably do a little riding there on my way home from the cabin.

You're right Buck, it is a great place with some phenonmenal terrain!

[Tim Wegner]

It has been awhile since I posted any thing about Cuyuna. Thought many of you might be interested in an update.

1. Money--One of the biggest concerns that I had with the grant was that it was from the Federal Highway Department. My concern was that the money would flow down to us through MNDOT. I was worried that since MNDOT did not know much about building NATURAL SURFACE trails that I would have a bunch of paperwork to go through and we would end up with most of the cash going to surveys and we would end up with a 12 foot wide trail that was all paved with curbs, drains, lighting, painted lines and maybe even a traffic signal along with an escalator to the top of the hills for those that could not make the climb. Fortuantely, Lynette Rochell from MNDOT, agreed that MNDOT did not know enough about natural surface trails to supervise the construction and asked the feds to run the cash through Minnesota DNR. So short story the cash will flow through the office of Tim Mitchell. Tim works with MORC on some of the other grants we have recieved and knows what our trails program looks like and is comfortable with MORC/IMBA's work.

2. We still have to find the cash match ($186,000) If any of you have some extra in a drawer, now would be the time to dig it out and make a big $$$$$$$$ contribution. Actually, we will be applying for a couple of grants to help with the match, Minnesota Parks and Trails Council has also included our needs in its requet that is going before the legislature to be included in the bonding bill. Prepare to call your local politician and ask him to step up to the plate on the bill when it is up for vote. We will keep you informed about timing etc.


I think that is it for now.

Tim

[gopherhockey]

Great update Tim! And what an excellent continued job you are doing for our current and future trails.

:banana: :banana: :banana: for Tim!

[Buck]

Heck yeah Tim,
From remembering all the number talk, definitly a good thing that MNDOT isn't doing the grant stuff!!!

I'm working a cool angle with RB, who may be interested in helping out some how.

jeez John it should really be :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: of 'em! hahaha

L8R
Buck

[gopherhockey]

jeez John it should really be :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: of 'em! hahaha



Yea, I know... but he taped (with orange trail flagging tape) my vehicle up the other day in the parking lot at Leb, so I had to hold a few back ;)

[Buck]

Hey Tim,
I was doing some reading on trail building and such and stumbled across a thread about keeping dirtbikers off the mtn bike trails...I think I found something that could be used at Cayuna! :jumpy:

...**** I lost the post...I'll re-find...:eyeroll:

L8Rz
Buck

[ignote]

1. Would you travel 1-2 hours to ride in a location I described?
Yes! That area is beautiful - good excuse to make a weekend trip that way.

2. If you did visit what other activities including the ones I listed would you be interested in at the location (there is a major town nearby for beer etc.)
Camping, hiking, swimming, fishing, dining/entertainment (haha).

3. Would you stary for more than one day?
Yes

4. How long would you stay?
2-3 days.

5. Would you camp?
Most likely, depending on the season.

6. Would you stay in a hotel?
In late fall/early spring, possibly.

7. Would you be willing to help MORC build this trail?
Weekends would be open, yes.

[Tim Wegner]

Time for another update. Federal Highway department took 15% of my grant:cryin: Why? Because they could!!! I still need to find a big chunk of cash before we can get this project going. I have applied for a grant in the amount of $240,000. This would provide the match I need so I can spend what is left of the Federal Highway grant. Any way you look at it we will have alot of cash to spend on this trail.

The timeline we are working on is:
EAS(environmental assesment) to be done this summer
Develop bids this summer/fall
Put bid standards out this fall
Open bids and make awards November/December
Start design work this winter early spring
Start moving dirt late spring/early summer.

This is out of necessity a very flexible timeline. I do believe though that we will be moving dirt for the trail in 2007. We are looking to add some amenities such as camper cabins and getting two of the existing wells on the property up and running again.

Tim

[Tigger]

Tim (and the rest),

I am a n00b, and brand new MORC member, to boot. This sounds very exciting. I have a cabin about 10 miles south of Ironton and would be happy to help out any way I can, short of writing out a check for $240,000.

Steve

I plan on being up there this weekend with my bike, any recommendations for areas to bike around the mines, until we get the destination trail going.

[flashmcduff]

Has someone been contracted to complete the EA? If not, I may be able to advise or help in that regard. Congrats on all your hard work!

[Tim Wegner]

It is time to update on what is happening with the trails at Ironton. DNR will be doing the EA. I am waiting to hear about the grant application that would supply some of the cash match that is needed to get this program up and running.

If I can get $50K we will start to move dirt next spring or early summer. Bids would go out this winter. Design work would be done this winter or early spring.

I should hear about the grant by mid to late June. I have met with Courtland Nelson (state park director) Laurie Martinson (state trails and waterways director) and asked them to throw their support behing my grant application. I have also discussed with the DNR area supervisor from the Brainerd area asking for and recieving his support for this project.

Unfortuantely, our wise leaders in the state legislature did not see the need to fund the DNR, Parks etc. with dedicated funding source so much of the money that I had counted on did not happen. I had a request in for the bonding bill but that was eliminiated as well.

If I have not learned patience by now it is a lost cause. I understand that state agencies must move slowly but my goodness, glaciers move faster than this! I guess I should not complain. It was 5 years from the time I contacted Three Rivers Parks the first time until now. Tomorrow the bids will be opened for the project at Murphy-Hanrehan. Everyone better hope and pray that Trail Source gets the bid. As far as I know we are the only ones with mountain bike trail building experience that bid on the job. The rest of the bidders are excavators and asphalt contractors and they have to take the lowest bidder.

Tim

[soupboy]

Tim,

Is there a "media kit" to share with prospective corporate funding sources? In my experience these groups sit on lots of cash, but need to be spoon fed.

Sean

[Tim Wegner]

Sean
Nothing that sophisticated at this point. I will pursue that funding arena if I am turned down for the regional trail grant. Thanks for the thought. I will be in touch as this thing develops.
Tim

[soupboy]

Tim,

Great. I shouldn't have limited my inquiry as to corporates-only, maybe just parties that have not been historical "go-to" sources of funding. Lacking historical perspective, this project seems relatively large to me. Could traditional sources of capital be reasonably expected to cover the whole nut?

Sean

Sean
Nothing that sophisticated at this point. I will pursue that funding arena if I am turned down for the regional trail grant. Thanks for the thought. I will be in touch as this thing develops.
Tim

[Tim Wegner]

Sean
As of this point in time I am learning alot about government and how they move forward. I have also learned that red tape is a hot commodity and they like to use as much as possible. I will let everyone know what the outcome is on the grant application and if necessary will look at other funding sources if the grant doesn't work out.
Tim

[Tim Wegner]

It has been awhile since I updated everyone on the Cuyuna project so here goes.

I have met with a person that is interested in donating cash to help match some of the federal highway money we recieved several years ago. DNR (state parks) has developed a plan for development and is in the process of hiring a person to coordinate this project. They will also be doing the envirionmental statement. DNR is doing this out of their budget since we have no committment at this time for cash to match the federal money.

Recent developments:
Scott Linnenbergers, IMBA's director of field operations, is coming to Minneapolis August 22-24. We are meeting with dnr on site in Cuyuna and will also be meeting with MNDOT and Federal Highway representatives. (MNDOT and FHWA because FHWA sent the $$$$ to us and MNDOT because they will administer the $$$$$) Scott will be evaluating the site as a possible permanent IMBA trail training center as well as the suitability for a financial investment from IMBA.

We have invited the local state politicos to attend: Doty,Ward and Koehring. Have not heard if they will be able to attend or not.

DNR has put $2,000,000 into the bonding bill for 2008 for Cuyuna. That does not mean they will get it but it a better position than we were in last year at this time.

I have been to Washington to visit with Oberstar. I told him that we are moving forward and the project should get a start in '08. Also mentioned that we would need more cash to make this project a world class ride destination. The response was positive.

Thats it for now.

TW

[jzipfel]

I have met with a person that is interested in donating cash to help match some of the federal highway money we recieved several years ago. DNR (state parks) has developed a plan for development and is in the process of hiring a person to coordinate this project. They will also be doing the envirionmental statement. DNR is doing this out of their budget since we have no committment at this time for cash to match the federal money.



Tim:

Back in 2005 I had mentioned that I could help with the EAW, the offer still stands. I do not know how the DNR looks at this from the project standpoint and if they are obligated to actually author it. I would think that I could donate labor to perform the EAW and free up $$ for other aspects of the project.

Is this even a possibility?

[Tim Wegner]

I will check at our meeting on Friday and let you know.
tw

[cconely]

Just read about this in Dirtrag...very exciting, but I'm curious about schedule. Have there been any concrete updates that can be shared w/ the general public?

thanks,

chad.

[Tim Wegner]

Time for another update.

Have had several meetings with DNR, Parks and other government groups on this project. As you all know we need to find that local match for the federal money that I secured about 4 years ago. That amount has increased to about $155-175K because the Federal Highway is taking less off of the top each year so I have more federal money to spend so the local match has to increase as well.(it is a 20% match forumla)

The good news is that IMBA (International Mountain Bicycling Association) has designated Cuyuna as a proposed Ride Center. That would mean a possible school center here as well as international visitors that would come to the area to learn about building trails on highly disturbed soils.

Funding:
Quality Bicycle Products (QBP) has stepped up to the table and committed to donating $50,000 to this project, DNR has in its bonding request for 2008 $2million for Cuyuna. I am a bit concerned about the bonding money since the state also wants to buy a new park on the south side of lake Vermillion. I am just not sure there are enough $$$ to go around. I have partnered with Parks and TRails Council of Minnesota on this project because they have a wonderful lobbyist that has done great things to help get the funding for this project moved along. They also have a great relationship with DNR. If you are already a member of IMBA and MORC I would highly recommend that you also join Parks and Trails Council. They are doing great things in our state parks and are in support of Mountain Biking.

Also, Gary Sjoquist has now partnered with me in moving this project forward. Gary is well known in Washington DC and was the original founder of the local mountain biking orgainzation that eventually became MORC. Gary's ability to work around the legislators has been a tremendous help in raising the visibility of MORC, IMBA and the project at Cuyuna.

I have toured the site recently with DNR with the preliminary map for where mountain biking would be allowed. We were able to identify additional areas that should be open to mountain biking. We almost doubled the number of acres that will be open to mountain biking!!!

Today, Gary and I will be doing a presentation to DNR officials as well as the board of directors of Parks and Trails Council. Our goal is to raise the visiblity level of the area, the potential for a destination for families and to bring forth the economic impact of having an area of this magnitude in Minnesota.(think of the $$$ spent in the areas surrounding the CAMBA trails) Tomorrow at 10 AM we will take a walking tour of the area once again to ensure that everyone (DNR and Parks and Trails
Board) is aware of the beauty of this area as well as the potential for recreation and positive economic impact on the surrounding cities.

As Porky the pig says "thats all for now folks"
Tim:):)

[RiverRat]

Is there anything the general public can do to help get things moving?

Write a letter to someone?
Join IMBA?
Join MORC?
Show appreciation to QBP by supporting your LBS?
Hope in one hand and.... wait, that one doesn't work.

[Mario]

On the CAMBA Site, there was a study that anaylzed the economic effects of mountain biking on the hayward/cable area.

here's a link:
http://www.cambatrails.org/reports/regional_development.html


having the trails or nearby trails be a xc ski destination would help keep some econ. vitality in the winter.

Many of my friends and myself spend plenty of cash near the CAMBA system with cabin rentals, meals, bike shops, etc.

I would love to see something similar in MN.

[Tim Wegner]

Is there anything the general public can do to help get things moving?

Write a letter to someone?
Join IMBA?
Join MORC?
Show appreciation to QBP by supporting your LBS?
Hope in one hand and.... wait, that one doesn't work.

All of the above. Government moves very slooowwwwly. Drives me crazy but have learned to work within their timelines. This is my 4th year of working on this project:banghead:. If things go well this winter we may be moving some dirt next year but for sure by 2009. Estimating 15 miles per year for the next 3 years so we should be able to end up with 40-50 miles of trails.
tw

[Don Youngdahl]

............ If things go well this winter we may be moving some dirt next year but for sure by 2009. Estimating 15 miles per year for the next 3 years so we should be able to end up with 40-50 miles of trails.
tw

Tim, I wish we would have had you on our teem in our motorized trail development efforts.

I'm still hoping that I'll be able to ride the whole thing in one or 2 days, but time might be getting short. Hope it's as generally smooth as it was when we were riding our dirt bikes there.

[Tim Wegner]

Another Update:
The presentation went very well on Tuesday night. We were able to establish that mountain bike trails need to be designed by mountain bikers and also built by mountain bikers. (or at least contractors that are bikers) Gary Sjoquist and I did a power point presentation to DNR State Parks, as well as DNR Trails and Waterways. Courtland Nelson, director of state parks and Forrest Boe, director of state trails and waterways were both in attendance.

On Wednesday we did a walking tour of several areas of Cuyuna. The group was able to see the beauty of the area and the how the mountain bike trails would be used to attract people to the area. A request was made by Trails and Waterways that IMBA conduct a trail school for them sometime in the near future since they need to learn more about sustainable recreation trails.

I feel that these two days helped to bring forth the importance of funding the project. I know I can get the bill pushed through the house and the senate the problem once again will be getting the governor to sign the bill.

Had a meeting with Shaun Roberts in Crosby. Shaun is the local force behind forming a MORC chapter in the area. He said he was going to be delivering the chapter application to Lundell within the week and that they already had 20 members signed up for the chapter!!!

Tim

[Lezgo Cycling]

Great job Tim, sounds great...hope to see tis all come into place. Cayuna is beautiful area. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK, and also to Gary Sjoquist

[ryno lite]

Wow, 20 members, pretty impressive!


As always, great job Tim!

[jeffgude]

Another Update:
The presentation went very well on Tuesday night. We were able to establish that mountain bike trails need to be designed by mountain bikers and also built by mountain bikers. (or at least contractors that are bikers) Gary Sjoquist and I did a power point presentation to DNR State Parks, as well as DNR Trails and Waterways. Courtland Nelson, director of state parks and Forrest Boe, director of state trails and waterways were both in attendance.

On Wednesday we did a walking tour of several areas of Cuyuna. The group was able to see the beauty of the area and the how the mountain bike trails would be used to attract people to the area. A request was made by Trails and Waterways that IMBA conduct a trail school for them sometime in the near future since they need to learn more about sustainable recreation trails.

I feel that these two days helped to bring forth the importance of funding the project. I know I can get the bill pushed through the house and the senate the problem once again will be getting the governor to sign the bill.

Had a meeting with Shaun Roberts in Crosby. Shaun is the local force behind forming a MORC chapter in the area. He said he was going to be delivering the chapter application to Lundell within the week and that they already had 20 members signed up for the chapter!!!

Tim

Tim rocks:banana:

[DanB]

Very nice job! After my stop at Cuyuna that day I can't help but see this picture in my mind of the amazing singletrack that is possible up there everytime I read one of your updates. Way to go Tim, and thank you! It's a beautiful thing to think about! :)

[twegner]

Hi Everyone
It is time for another update on the Cuyuna Project. Many of you know that two bills were going through the house, senate and another funding source through DNR's budget. Today, governor Pawlenty used his line item veto to cut $200,000,000 from the bonding bill.

The money for Cuyuna mountain bike trails was NOT CUT!!!!! We have $150,000 to match the $700,000 from the Federal Highway Department. This is in addition to $50,000 from QBP, $10,000 from the Hallet foundation and an undermined amount from IMBA and the bicycle manufacturing community(perhaps in excess of $250,000).

We will be able to build a truly WORLD CLASS MOUNTAIN BIKING destination center right here in Minnesota!!!! I must thank all those that have helped achieve this goal:
IMBA for continued support and guidance

Parks and Trail Council of Minnesota for their support and knowledge of how the legislative process works.

Judy Erickson who has helped me for the past 2 years to create the bills, gotten signatures form senators and representatives and shepherded these bills through to completion. We would still be scratching our heads trying to figure where to start were it not for Judy's excellent guidance. Judy walked right into many offices while others wait outside hoping for access. Awesome job Judy.

Gary Sjoquist who has come on board this year and has shared the responsiblities for this project the past year.

And, last but not least, MORC. Without the morale support, encouragement and financial support for trips to Washington DC this whole project may not have ever happened.

Thanks again to everyone that has sent e-mails of encoragment and congratulations. I know we will need more $$$$ to build the IMBA classroom and a trail center but now we can start putting trails on the ground.

The EAW is being completed as we speak, I am hoping the bid requests can be sent out this fall and contruction can begin in early 2009. Hopefully we will have 20 miles of trails ready to ride by fall of 2009 with more to come each year.

Tim Wegner

[TML]

Absolutely awesome Tim!

I was so happy when I saw the list of line-item vetoes yesterday and it was NOT in there.

Thank you to everyone that laid a hand on this project. It's very exciting to see a project like this actually gain some ground and get on its way.

Thanks Tim!! :banana::banana:

[Paul Swenson]

This is Great!! More bananas:banana::banana::banana:

[igor]

:) This is tremendous! A huge thanks to Tim and crew for putting this together. Since I first started going to Cable in 1992 I always said why can't MN have something like this? Now we will! I can't put into words how excited I am so I'll just throw in some bananas! :banana::banana::banana:

[ryno lite]

Tim,

Thanks for all of your hard work! I can't properly put into words how excited I am for MN mtn biking! We finally will have our own destination trail! Hopefully it will be an IMBA Epic trail some day! I 'm sure it will be.

Also, congratulations on successful completion of this important part of this huge project. For all of you who don't know, Tim has worked countless hours for years on this project. Without Tim, this project wouldn't have even been dreamed up, much less get to the point where we have the money to build it. I can't wait for 2009!

Thanks and congratulations Tim! You are the #1 advocate for mtn biking in MN! I'm happy for MN mtn biking and happy to see your success!

[bike>>rider]

:banana::banana::banana:

Now that this looks like it'll be reality thanks to all the great work of the folks mentioned below, any update on what the final project will look like when all is said and done? Has anything changed from the initial vision?

Great work. The massiveness of this project, plus the reversal of user fees at Theo the result of the MOCA/MORC work provide two more great examples of why fence-sitters should pony-up and join MORC. Just check the results, the group is getting results working for the betterment of mtn biking in MN. To those that use "MORC is metro only" as an excuse for not joining, you need a new excuse now. This is really exciting.

[ppgc]

Awesome news! Thanks Tim for all your hard work!

[berrywise]

Sounds like our Imba grade is gonna be taking a bump up in 2009! Awesome news!

[Shorty]

...two bills were going through the house, senate and another funding source through DNR's budget.

We have $150,000 to match the $700,000 from the Federal Highway Department. This is in addition to $50,000 from QBP, $10,000 from the Hallet foundation and an undermined amount from IMBA and the bicycle manufacturing community(perhaps in excess of $250,000).

Sweet!! Thanks for the update and all the hard work!

So is the project fairly set, or is it still dependent on other sources of additional funds?

Am I right in that there is still about $250,000 in funding left to raise?

[Kingbozo]

Kick a**!!!!!!!!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

[berrywise]

Most of you know that I work from 2-3 years ahead of the time we do any trail design/construction.

So I am looking for some input from you as a rider. Respond to the following questions so I can make sure I am working in the right direction. I had made some contacts about building trails in an area that does not have many trails at this time. Looks like the contact may pay off, but before I make a committment I need to know "if we build it will they come."

The area has the potential for about 40-50 miles of trails. Some would be beginner, some intermediate, some expert and maybe an opportunity for a terrain park with stunts. The land is about 1.5-2 hours from the metro (no it is not in Duluth) has about 1800 acres of water and 3200 acres of buildable land. There would be opportunity for other activities besides mountain biking, Fishing, swimming, scuba diving, Kayaking, canoeing hiking and camping are all activities that could be conducted at this location.

The problem (you knew it had to have one) is that there is not good base of mountain bikers in this area. So the questions that I am asking are:
1. Would you travel 1-2 hours to ride in a location I described?
2. If you did visit what other activities including the ones I listed would you be interested in at the location (there is a major town nearby for beer etc.)
3. Would you stary for more than one day?
4. How long would you stay?
5. Would you camp?
6. Would you stay in a hotel?
7. Would you be willing to help MORC build this trail?

I have told the person in charge that what mountain bikers want are:
fun challenging trails
good water to drink
a place to camp
a place to shower
a place for food and beverages
a place to get bike parts.

Since we are beginning to wind down the season here I thought this might get everyones' juices flowing and create some outstanding discussion. Let me assure you, the opportunity is very very real. The actual start time may be 2 years in the future(only because it will take that long to get the financing nailed down) This could become the next MDH, only with water you can swim in and not walk upon. Some of you know the location but lets keep it a secret for a month of so just to keep everyone guessing!! Maybe John L. could give a prize out for the first person to figure it out.

Let everyone know what you think. Maybe we can get our IMBA report card rating increased to an A within the next couple of years.

TW

I just thought I'd bump this original thread since it is so cool that between November of 2004 and now that this is becoming a reality.

[ryno lite]

I just thought I'd bump this original thread since it is so cool that between November of 2004 and now that this is becoming a reality.

He actually started working on this a few months before that! It really puts it in prespective how long and how much work it takes to do something like this. We still have to wait another year to build and then it's going to take 2-3 years to build! Pretty amazing! Nice post!

[dave t]

Awesome work Tim! Thanks a million!

Can't wait to see it built. Maybe even pitch in a few days to help it get built when the time comes. I know you will keep us in the loop.

[BG128]

This looks awsome! I can't wait to see it

[jitterjepp]

This very cool! A trail up by the lake! Woo Hoo!!

:banana::banana::banana:

[bakkeb]

This is awesome that its finally gonna happen. :banana:Been hearing about this for quite awhile...great work Tim. I'm sure it will be rewarding for you when tires actually hit the trail.:etard:

[jzipfel]

Wanted to BORROW:

I volunteered my time to prepare the Environmental Assessment Worksheet for the Cuyuna Trail but would like to include some info from the Trail Solutions Book.

Anyone have a copy I could borrow while we prepare this document?

Thanks,
Jeff

[ryno lite]

Jeff,

I pm'd you.