Snow Tires

[Yammer]

What are some good aggressive snow tires to get for off-road use?

Are there any off-road trails that can be ridden in the winter?

I keep seeing lots of pics from B.C. and their winter freeriding... makes me rethink what a MN winter could be like...

[soupboy]

...tires from folks like Nokian, but they are pricey and really heavy.

Unless the trails are really icy, which sucks, even with studded tires, I suggest you run some big, high volume short tread block tires likes the Motoraptor, Maxxix Bling Bling or others that are 2.4" or bigger but still relatively light.

Run the PSI a little lower than you normally would for better "float".

Visit One On One to get a look at a real snow bike - Surly Large Marge rims and Nokian 3.0" DH tires for seriously wide, low profile treads.

Sean

[mtnbykr]

What are some good aggressive snow tires to get for off-road use...
your lbs can also get a cheep 26x2.1 studded mtb tyre from qbp asap, ok.

but soupboy's wide tyre idea also would work great!!


kl


don't let the bears eat me....

[Yammer]

Can you ride places like Lebanon and Theo in the winter?

[noise_is_life]

At Theo we will be closing the trails when there is enough snow for the x-country trails to be groomed. You can ride up until then (don't ride wet trails though).

I can't speak for Leb, but they are probably similar.

[Yammer]

Yeah I definitely don't want to wreck any trails. When they freeze over and a layer of snow starts to pack though that may be pretty decent riding.

Patrick

[KleinCrazy]

Yeah I definitely don't want to wreck any trails. When they freeze over and a layer of snow starts to pack though that may be pretty decent riding.

Patrick
I also do not know about the plan for winter riding at leb this year.

However, there will be at least a 3 event winter race series and I might see if I can get Salem hills open for winter riding also.

[thebionicman]

Theo is still up in the air. There may actually be a close date there. We just want to make sure people aren't riding when its really muddy, and I know that its going to be a problem there.


Just for everyones info, what trails are open in the winter?

[Magic]

We used to ride the River Bottoms in the winter. Once the foot traffic packs down the trail, it is very rideable. Just stay on the packed trail, going off ends up in nothing but all bad. Most other trails in the area turn over to XC skiing.

[Lkemp]

I've taken old tires and ran pan head screws from the inside of the tire out. Then I put duct tape over the heads of the screws. Worked great on packed hiking trails. Not so great on the pavement. If you have a lot of time and some crappy tires its pretty fun to try out. If there are going to be trails that we can ride on, I'd be willing to try it out again.

[Yammer]

Maybe Morc or IMBA has already done some research on how to maintain winter rideable trails. Keeping the bike season going is good for everyone involved. The state, the riders, the mtb organizations and the bike shops!

Patrick

[gopherhockey]

Can you ride places like Lebanon and Theo in the winter?Once there is enough snow at Lebanon to let the skiiers in, we close the mountain bike trails.

However - now that our trails don't significantly share with the skiiers as in past years there might be room for riding. The problem is the fences open up and people might not know which way to go and could be tempted to follow the ski trail... that would put a quick end to bikes out there at all after the snow falls.

We don't actually *close* (with fences) the trails until spring before the thaw when it starts to become a trail damage issue.

I haven't put much thought into what it would be like to have studded tires doing significant traffic over the obstacles at Leb - I would imagine it would cause significant wear compared to normal use.

Snowshoers have the right of way once the snow falls - even on the bike trails.

[tedsti]

I haven't put much thought into what it would be like to have studded tires doing significant traffic over the obstacles at Leb - I would imagine it would cause significant wear compared to normal use.

Snowshoers have the right of way once the snow falls - even on the bike trails.
My snowshoes have big a$$ metal teeth on them that will tear things up much more than my studded bike tires. Granted, home-made studded tires will probably do more damage than my store bought ones.

Ted

[Yammer]

Maybe winter riders on Morc trails can buy a winter permit and have their equipment inspected as part of the process.

I also snowshoe and yes, those things can really maul the trail when you get to low snow spots.
Patrick

[gopherhockey]

My snowshoes have big a$$ metal teeth on them that will tear things up much more than my studded bike tires. Granted, home-made studded tires will probably do more damage than my store bought ones.

Ted
Thats a good point. We might want to think about protecting our wood structures at least from all the above during winter and let people stick to the trails only. I don't want to go back and be replacing bridges any sooner than necessary ;)

[bigwheel]

This discussion is kind of funny, especially after following the XC ski forums such as http://www.skinnyski.com in the spring. They are all talking of roller skis and ways to continue into the summer, when they should really be biking. Here, we are trying to figure out how to ride our bikes in the winter, when we should really be skiing.

With regard to our delicate structures, it might make sense to close off the X/XX loops once we get into stud/showshoe weather, but leave the beginner/intermediate sections open.

I'd have to imagine that studded tires will cause more damage to our structures than showshoes.
1: Showshoe cleats are mainly there for getting across lakes and icy patches. If the snow is sparse enough for the cleats to continually grab the ground (or bridge), then the person would probably just take off the showshoes and hike in his/her boots.
2: Bikes need traction to climb over structures, whereas showshoes can usually just step up onto or over them.

[transplant]

The only time I see needing studded tires is if you're going to ride on ice. A large tire (2.2 - 2.5) with a low volume of air should be enough to get you around Leb. This is from experience (in Illinois, not at Leb.). That way the wood stunts could be ridden with no more damage than what they experience in-season.

[Yammer]

I agree with Tom. I would not run studs personally. I probably wouldn't even bike if we had a freezeover.

Also, with the technology that mountain bikes are getting to, I don't think that you can say that there's a seasonal limit to when you can use them. Skis are a different story all together IMO.

It's also true that if the ground was dry I probably wouldn't use my snowshoes. But I use the cleats alot when I'm climbing and decending hills and obstacles. I tend to not stay on trails when snowshoeing, and I think that's one of the main reasons I like to use them. Anyway that's another topic.

Patrick

[transplant]

DISCLAIMER. I just want to point out I'm not advocating riding during the winter if the trails will suffer damage. However, I believe it can be done under certain circumstances, such as having a good base of snow where there's no danger of hitting dirt. John, what are your thoughts or criteria regarding this? I know I had some of the best times on snow. It changes the look and feel of a trail a lot, much the way a night ride can.

[gopherhockey]

DISCLAIMER. I just want to point out I'm not advocating riding during the winter if the trails will suffer damage. However, I believe it can be done under certain circumstances, such as having a good base of snow where there's no danger of hitting dirt. John, what are your thoughts or criteria regarding this? I know I had some of the best times on snow. It changes the look and feel of a trail a lot, much the way a night ride can.I think trail damage is minimal under snow when the ground is frozen... for me its more an issue of what the land manager(s) want, and what kinds of trouble we could potentially get into conflicting with other uses.

I think for the sake of Leb once we have enough snow that the skiiers are out there, we should stop riding - even if we're just crossing their trails in certain places.

I like to ride right up to the first few inches... its during the fall freeze and thaw that sometimes happens that we probably do the most damage to the trail. So far we've been lucky.. but we are now getting into that time again. If we were to get a time of freezing followed by some 60-70 degree weather I've seen the trail turn to mush.

I think we'll keep an eye on Lebanon and help Dakota determine when bikers are no longer welcome for the season - once that time arrives we best stick to other trails like River Bottoms etc. So far its been available up to very late December if not further... but the last few years we had a hard and fast closed date of December 1.

[transplant]

I agree with stopping when the skiers hit, and going along with the land managers's wishes. Conflict bad, access good. It would suck to lose access to Leb. I didn't realize the River Bottoms were open year 'round for riding. Are there guidelines for that trail?

[gopherhockey]

I agree with stopping when the skiers hit, and going along with the land managers's wishes. Conflict bad, access good. It would suck to lose access to Leb. I didn't realize the River Bottoms were open year 'round for riding. Are there guidelines for that trail?
I'd have to defer to the trail stewards there, but I believe its been one of those open all year round types of trails... part of that being because its a much less "formal" trail actually..

Mr. Eberly, you out there?

[Magic]

My old race team and the Flanders boys rode for the past 7 winters out at the River Bottoms. Nobody ever said anything about us out there. But yes it would be nice to know for sure if it's legal out there in the winter. Like I said before, as long as you stay on the packed foot path your good. But as soon as you drop a tire off the packed path look out. If we get some good ice this winter I'll post and see who wants to join me for some ice riding. Bring on the white stuff.:)

[TML]

The only time I see needing studded tires is if you're going to ride on ice. A large tire (2.2 - 2.5) with a low volume of air should be enough to get you around Leb. This is from experience (in Illinois, not at Leb.). That way the wood stunts could be ridden with no more damage than what they experience in-season.
Unless it gets icy and glazed over I agree. For most winter riding a good fat, high volume tire will work pretty well. If you start going fast though or you run into ice then it's nice to have some studs.

Looking forward to some snow riding! Here's the first snow ride at Leb last year.

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/513/198WinterGroup2-med.JPG

mtnbykr, superclyde and crash heading out for a loop.

There was about an inch or so of snow on the ground and it was frozen solid beneath that. Very good conditions!

[Ish]

I agree with Troy - There are a ton of riders at the river bottoms in the winter. I will defer to the stewards for the official word - but as long as the ground is frozen I don't see any issues.

I'm in for some good ice riding!

[TML]

Oh yeah, and once you've got that layer of snow on the ground, you just about tripled the effective brightness of your headlight.

[SPR]

Nokian studded tires
Nokian sells 15,000 studded mountain bike tires per year in the United States - and the company's three models sell for $80, $120 and $175 apiece! That's a lot of serious snow and ice riders. According to Nokian, one big market is riders who race on frozen lakes. For more, see www.nokiantyres.com. (http://www.nokiantyres.com/bike/winter/index.html)

[tedsti]

I have a set of Innova studded tires (~$35/each). They do pretty well on ice and hardpacked snow, but I have not been impressed in loose, unpacked the snow. They tend to want to wash out on me. If you look at the tread pattern, it does not support good lateral traction. They do serve me well for what I use them for most, which is riding the paved bike trails. These things are heavy, but I think all studded tires are. One thing you will learn about riding in the snow is that you don't have to go very far to totally wear you out.

Ted

[Yammer]

What do you think guys?

Larsen TT
26 x 2.35
http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/product_detail.asp?id=272

or

Lopes Bling Bling Dual
26 x 2.35
http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/product_detail.asp?id=234

Both come in varying grades of tackiness as well.

Patrick

[berrywise]

Class on how to build studded tires.



http://www.bikeped.org/Calendar/view_entry.php?id=21&date=20050120

[JBergland]

What do you think guys?

Larsen TT
26 x 2.35
http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/product_detail.asp?id=272

or

Lopes Bling Bling Dual
26 x 2.35
http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/product_detail.asp?id=234

Both come in varying grades of tackiness as well.

Patrick

I'd go with the TTs... should have more options for placement of studs.

JB

[JBergland]

Nokian studded tires
Nokian sells 15,000 studded mountain bike tires per year in the United States - and the company's three models sell for $80, $120 and $175 apiece! That's a lot of serious snow and ice riders. According to Nokian, one big market is riders who race on frozen lakes. For more, see www.nokiantyres.com. (http://www.nokiantyres.com/bike/winter/index.html)
That is interesting. I could be wrong, but I don't believe any of the top 10-15 riders at last years Ice Crit. Series were running anything stock... ALL home-made!!!! The main thing Nokian has over home-made stuff is durability... standard screws get dull after a short time.

JB