Coil vs. Air suspension

[Yammer]

Ok. Thanks for help on the full suspension bike types. I an going with a Ventana El Saltamontes. Now onto suspension. I would like to explore people's opinions and experiences with coil versus air suspension. Both in the fork as well as rear shocks. Forks I'm looking at are mostly Fox or Marzocchi and also Romic for the rear.

Is the choice between air and coil purely a matter of taste or is the trail and riding style a major factor in the decision as well?

Thanks! Patrick:alien:

[Magic]

Air vs Coil depends on your riding style and your weight. If your going to ride hard stick with coils for the rear and front. I like Marrz. front forks with the open bath system. If your going pure XC go with air. They are lighter than coil. I took the coil vanilla off my Heckler and put on a Stratus Pro air rear shock on, because at the time I was racing this bike. But all in all I've only blown up the rear air shock once in 9 years. Plus with the Startus Pro I have the ability to lock out the rear shock with a lever on the bar, which makes my FS a hardtail when I feel the need. I won't use air front forks for the type of riding I do. They simply don't last for me. I'm sure you'll get a few different responces on this topic. I hope this adds to your thought process.

[SuperClydesdale]

Ok. Thanks for help on the full suspension bike types. I an going with a Ventana El Saltamontes. Now onto suspension. I would like to explore people's opinions and experiences with coil versus air suspension. Both in the fork as well as rear shocks. Forks I'm looking at are mostly Fox or Marzocchi and also Romic for the rear.

Is the choice between air and coil purely a matter of taste or is the trail and riding style a major factor in the decision as well?

Thanks! Patrick:alien:
Patrick

From whom are you ordering your Salty? If you are undecided yet, I highly suggest doing business with Larry Mettler at Mountain High Cycles in Loveland, CO. He has served many of us very well, and he sells tons of Ventanas and knows how best to set them up. Awesome value, as well. I know I'll several "amens" on that point, as well as his very high level of knowledge and service.

http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com/

Cheers
Mark

[Kosk]

Temperature plays a major roll in air shocks (coils too, but not as much).

Ideal Gas Law [PV=RT]

In the fall where it can be freezing in the morning and 60+ in the afternoon, the air pressure in the fork will change as the day gets warmer, this can lead to 10%+ changes in air pressure, which can be noticeable. Not a problem but it just means you'll have to mess with the pressure settings if you are on a day long ride, otherwise it'll be to mushy in the morning or too high a pressure in the afternoon.

Another thing that I have experienced is on sustained downhill runs. This won't likely happen around here, but when I was in Montana my roommate had an air shock (noleen) for a while and as you would run sections of DH single track (1 mile or more at a time) the fork would get firmer and eventually the pressure was so high is was like a rigid fork. This happened because the heat created from the fork cycling and the brakes would heat the fork lowers enough, and consequently the air, to create a higher pressure. It was quite a phenominal thing to witness. He got so sick of it that he got rid of it for a coil shock. But like I said, this likely won't happen around here, but if you plan to take trips out west to Colorado, Moab, etc, you could potentailly experience both these problems with an air fork. But for saving weight and XC riding, air is the bomb.

Sorry for the chemistry lecture. Class dismissed

[Buck]

I've ridden both, air and coil, I've also blown up both... I would say maybe look at getting a Push'd shock, Romic is pretty hit and miss performance from what I hear, I have only ridden one once and I was amazed but I hear to many people having problems with them...so I stay away. Push'd on the other hand I have heard nothing but good things about, find a used shock, mail it to them, get it re-valved and BAM, you got yourself a new shock!

Air vs. Coil...
It is mainly personnal preference, I ride uber hard on my equipment, so a coil in my eyes is the only way to go. The bike is way more responsive, and if you want you can always fiddle with different springs for different riding. I blew this shock up riding down a 750 stair case as fast as I could, Fox to uber good care of me and I was up and runnin with in two weeks, not to bad considering I had to send it in in July, their busy time! On the other hand you take the weight penalty of the spring(unless you go Ti...:cool: ). Air on the other hand to me feels more dead, i suppose due to not having the spring, and mine has held up to 8' to flat drops(stoopid idea!) but blew up shortly there after(go figure.). So it all comes down to what you are going to ride, your style and what you want/need to step up to, and also what the bike is designed for.

Forks.
I'm a Marz whore. Although I have broken to Jr.Ts they held up and did there jobs fine(until they broke of course :hit: ). But Marz took great care of me both times and within 2 weeks I had a new fork in hand, this time a 888 :cool: ... I would again look at what you are going to be riding, and make sure to shop, there are a lot of killer forks being released this year, escpecially in the realm of all mountain forks!

New parts are fun, enjoy what you get and post up some pics!!!

L8R
Buck

[Yammer]

I also am a big fan of Marzocchi forks.

Ok so if I go coil fork from Marzocchi, what fork can I choose that will give me up to 130 mm travel and be able to lock down for extended road rides and climbs? Something like a Z1 Freeride SL but coil..?

Patrick

[Buck]

I would look at the '05 Z1 FR I ETA(150mm of travel) and that has 20mm axel too. Looks bomb proof, and as we all know the Z1 has a been a great fork since the beginning! Might also want to look at the all mountain selection to... But that may be more then you are looking for, then just go to their website they have all the models up from way back when if you snoop around...www.marzocchi.com (http://www.marzocchi.com/)

L8R
Buck

[FSSS]

Ideal Gas Law [PV=RT]

You forgot the number of moles (n): PV = nRT

:crazy:

[Yammer]

Is a 2004 Z1 FR ETA (coil) going to be to plush for the climbing and XC riding around the Twin Cities?

There are different springs available for these for rider weight, right?

Thanks, Patrick

[Tegra54]

You forgot the number of moles (n): PV = nRT

:crazy:
depending on your textbook the number of moles is incorporated into the specific R value for each gas ;)

[Magic]

Yes there are different springs, also you can play with the oil height in the legs to change the way the fork feels.

[Yammer]

Where is a good place to get new Marzocchi springs? :banana:

[Magic]

You can have your LBS order them up from Quality. Or check on some bike websites.

[Yammer]

Yeah that's what I figured, just hoping for someone with a site link where they are selling for cheap. Ok. Might as well give the LBS some business.

So let's say I go with an '04 Z1 FR ETA QR20... what should I do about the through axle hub? Also will this hub need to work specifically with the brake system I have? The bike came with Hayes discs if that makes a difference.

[Magic]

Most 20mm hubs are disk comp. I'll be making the switch to 20mm this winter. I use Speedgoat, beyondbikes.com, price point and jensonusa.com the most. They usally have what I need for my Marz. forks.

[Buck]

mmm, I would go through go-ride.com...they specifically work in the DH/FR stuff, you could probably get everything you need and they usually have great deals. Like right now they have are giving store credit for any shock you buy.
L8R
Buck

[soupboy]

...good shop, wicked riders/wrenches but you'll be hard pressed to beat the value (i.e. price) and service of Larry Mettler of www.mtnhighcyclery.com (http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com/) on either the Ventana frame or Zoke fork.

Larry takes apart all Zokes he sells to ensure proper oils levels - a recurring problem with Zokes as they are often shipped w/o the proper levels leaving users frustrated with out-of-the-box performance. Nice touch.

As for the air/coil debate good points are made here - if, in general, you are really big or are really hard on your bike (e.g. launching off stuff like Buck) coil is probably your better option. That said, air technology has come a long way in the last few years. Besides your Salty is not a big hit bike and even if you are a clyde, you can readily run air shocks on that bike.

Larry Mettler rides a custom one-off Ventana La Bruja/X-5 frameset with a Fox RP3 and loves it. He rides hard, on tough CO trails and is a clyde and has no problems with air shocks.

I ride both air (Cane Creek Cloud 9) and coil (Romic) and to be honest it's a draw for me especially on a well designed Horst link bike that is not dependent on "platform" type dampers due to compromised designs.

Essentially all 20mm thru axle hubs are going to be disc compatible unless you find some really old, NOS hubs. The Marzocchi stuff is solid. I currently run a 04 Z1SL ECC (air) with standard QR and it was bomber (no pun intended) at Lutsen last weekend for this 250# clyde. The fork's capacity far exceeds my abilities.

Hope this helps.

--Sean

[Yammer]

What about reliability and longevity, also ease of maintenance and rebuilding? If I'm down to the '04 Z1 FR SL ECC and the '04 Z1 FR ETA, which one will have a longer life and be less complex to tune and fix when problems occur?

I am coming from a Z2 BAM and have changed the oil and springs a few times and also totally rebuilt the seals last year, so I understand what that takes. Would the air shock be as serviceable?

Can I rely on the SL like I probably could the ETA fork when I'm out on a really big ride?

Patrick

[rowland]

unless something has changed, the salty doesn't have a horst link, so you probably do want a platform type shock.

[Standard]

All 'zokes forks are pretty much the same, the air ones sometimes mount the cartridge differently but they're all a cinch to work on. I've rebuilt my '98 Z2, 99 Z3, '03 Jr. T, '04 888R.. and worked on Marathon's, Shivers, Monster T's.. can't keep track. 'Bout the only difference is the amount of oil they hold.

Adam, you're going to love the 888. Best fork in the world.

[Buck]

Hey Mike,

I already think it is the best fork out there, I've had it since late August, I can't wait to do some racin on it next year, and looks like pretty quick hear I'll be rippin it down in Chicago so I can get some huckage on it to, I think it is butter, I'm Marz fan for life!!! :cool: I suppose it is an awesome fork for the Demo, that is what you are riddin right now correct??
L8R
Buck