Ventana El Saltamontes versus Rocky Mtn ETSX

[Yammer]

What are people's opinions and experiences with the Ventana El Saltamontes and the Rocky Mountain ETSX (50 or 70) ?

I am considering a FS bike that will be versatile for around the Twin Cities, Chequamegon as well as road trips to Moab and B.C.

Thanks, Patrick

[waitabit]

I just bought a Rocky Mountain Slayer and it rock's.I rode an ETSX-50, and it wasn't much different than the Slayer, and the Sler was 400 less, so I bought the Slayer.

[Yammer]

Yeah I just test rode the Slayer 70 and the ETSX-50 back to back at Freewheel tonight. The Slayer was fun and very smooth, but the ETSX-50 had quicker accelleration and felt better while I was pedaling in and out of the saddle. The ETSX suspension was compliant enough for me and the adjustable rear travel rocks.

I was in Moab last fall and saw a Ventana for the first time. It also has an optional 3-4-5 rocker arm, but it requires a tool while the ETSX has a quick release mechanism. But there's something about the Ventana that really interests me. I've never rode one though so I hope somebody has experience with both the El Saltamontes and the ETSX.

Patrick

[crux]

The RM is a good company to deal with and they do put out some quality frames some of which are based off of old Ventana models. The salt is a very nice ride and would put it up against any other frame out there in terms of performance and reliability. I have seen to many high dollar frames fail on the trails to trust to many other builders out there. Sherwood does a great job with his suspension frames and Teresa is very helpful if your going to order direct or you can order locally. I started up my own shop several years back dealing with what I felt were the best frames and parts on the market. It has never produced much income and I will never be able to compete with any of the local shops around in terms of quick availability since everything is custom ordered upon customers needs.

If you’d like to test an El Fuego (Basically an El Salt in 3" mode) I have one built up in a 19" or an X-5 with 6" rockers also same size. Even have one of there single speeds in the shop.

You may also want to consider a Titus SwitchBlade as an option as well.

Email me at flatlandcycles yahoo com if your interested.

Ventana is a real stand up company and I have never see a frame that has failed, although there are a few that have after several years, but no worries with them as Sherwood replaces them with out any issues. Not to many companies out there still do that.

[soupboy]

...and these are the only options you'll consider get the Ventana - beautifully built bikes with the only drawback being that they are non-Horst which is important to some (like me). The only reason I purchased my Turner over Sherwood's products is the lack of a true Horst link rear end. That said, the Salty is a rock solid bike and stiff as heck.

For the $ and type, you should also consider a Turner 5-Spot or Flux and the Titus Moto Lite or Switchblade.

Any of these bikes will be stiffer and better built than the RM bikes. The RM bikes are not "bad" bikes but they are mass produced and are not based on time tested designs a la Ventana, Turner and Titus.

Also every RM ETSX I've come across is flexy and seems more focused on looking different before getting the performance aspect down. In that price range you can find a host of bikes, namely Specialized, that offer performance, value and time tested designs that are superior to anything RM currently produces.

The adjustable front or rear travel thing is overrated. I've owned bikes with these features and not once have I ever been on the trail and said "...ya know, the ride would be better if I changed travel to XXX..." Fork lock downs can be nice for protracted fire road climbs but adjustable rear travel seems frivolous for a variety of reasons with the biggest being the need to change PSI or spring rate to accomodate the different leverage ratios to get the same type of performance out of the suspension across a range of travel.

Hope this helps,

Sean

[waitabit]

You're calling RM's mass produced but you're telling somebody to buy a specialized!? Talk about mass produced.

[soupboy]

...arguments.

Is Specialized mass produced? Yes, probably by a multiple of the next closest competitor. Importantly though, they use technology that is patented and licensed by inumberable other brands...something RM can not claim.

Not saying the RMs are "bad" bikes, just that better technology is available at a like price point.

At the end of the day, it's the rider, not the bike anyway...

Sean

[Yammer]

Can you explain why it is so desireable to use a Horst link style suspension? Is the difference between a Horst and say a Ventana style linkage that noticeable or is it mostly a theoretical ideal more than a practical improvement?

** Also, what about bearings versus bushings... got anything to say about this?

Patrick

[rowland]

my understanding about the horst link is that you can place the pivot point almost anywhere. if i'm wrong, i'd like to read it explained.

with the etsx they use a floating axel, same concept as the blur, to keep pedal bob in check.

as for berings or bushings, my wife has a horst link bike with a main pivot bering and bushings everywhere else. when the bushing are new it rides like a buckboard. when they wear just a wee bit, it rides nice. after a solid year of riding you can wiggle the whole back end around.

i'd go with the berings next time.

[Kosk]

Everything you wanna know is explained pretty well here:

http://www.titusti.com/suspension.html

[rowland]

by changing the pivot point you can control your suspension ability to right itself or have whatever ride qualities the designer wants. ellsworth places the axel pivot point several feet in front of the bike by where they place there pivot points. i don't know if i'm writing this clearly but i think its a cool concept.

[waitabit]

...arguments.

Is Specialized mass produced? Yes, probably by a multiple of the next closest competitor. Importantly though, they use technology that is patented and licensed by inumberable other brands...something RM can not claim.

Not saying the RMs are "bad" bikes, just that better technology is available at a like price point.

At the end of the day, it's the rider, not the bike anyway...

Sean I hear you, it's not like i'm trying to defend rocky mountain, but i've ridden alot of bike's and it's as good as any i've owned . as for the flexy part, my steel rigid single speed is flexy but I want it to be, my rocky is full suspension and..................... see what i'm getting at.

[crux]

by changing the pivot point you can control your suspension ability to right itself or have whatever ride qualities the designer wants. ellsworth places the axel pivot point several feet in front of the bike by where they place there pivot points. i don't know if i'm writing this clearly but i think its a cool concept.
Yeah, Tony creates quite a concept with his bike, but have seen to many fail and not fall under any type of warranty due to usage (off road). Personally I don't think that the elsworth ride any better than a trek fuel. Many concepts have been tried in cycling over the years, not all sucessful, but the ones that are seem to have a way of sticking around for a number of years.

The 05 salt rides a bit different than eariler models because Sherwood moved the upper piviot a few mm yeilding a more progressive compression ratio with the new technology that had developed in shocks here the past few years (ie pro pedal).

Hell if your after the ultimate suspended bike that is not going to be a mass produced rig why not get an IF Tungsten Electrode.