PSA-Speed traps on Bike Paths?

[Kingbozo]

Looks like they may begin enforcing the 10mph limit on the paved bike paths around town.

http://www.skywaynews.net/articles/2004/09/27/news/news11.txt

[manual63]

You have any idea how slow 10MPH is?

I guess I will start avoiding bike paths and sharing the road with the SUVs that are out to kill me.

This is one of those over regulation things in my opinion....... :p

[Kingbozo]

You have any idea how slow 10MPH is?
The term "mind numbingly" comes to mind.

[syntaxjunkie]

...to which I'd add "soul-suckingly."

[Don Youngdahl]

All the more reason to keep up the push for good street access and designated bike lanes in the streets.

Don Youngdahl

[Trevize1138]

Um, what about in-line skaters?

I think the city is going to run into a major hurdle on that issue, not so much bikes. A bike can have a computer added to it for $15 that will tell the rider how fast he/she is going. In-line skates do not have that option, and many of the people out there skating, in particular the ones with the nice 5 wheel speedskate setup, can cruise at 20mph. Even 15mph on 4 wheel skates is easy enough to maintain.

I just know this from my own days on the 5 wheelers drafting behind guys on MTBs. I could do several consecutive laps around Harriet and keep it between 19 and 21 mph. If someone tried to "bust" me for speeding, I'd put up my hands and ask "Do you see a speedometer on me?"

Also, riding a bike on a road is one thing: you really only need a little more width than what your handlebars take up and you've got brakes. Speedskaters quite often need nearly the full width of a paved trail to get up to speed and most 5 wheelers do not have heel brakes, you just drag one skate behind you. It's good enough if you need to slow down and *eventually* stop, but not safe for traffic!

[ppgc]

My favorite part, "Misdemeanors carry a maximum fine of $1,000 or 90 days in jail or both, Johnson said. A judge would decide the appropriate punishment, (but, obviously, it would not be the maximum, he said.)"

Try explaining that one to the boss/wife, "I have to spend a week in jail for doing 15 in a 10...on my bike..."

:crazy2:

[crashnburn]

All the more reason to keep up the push for good street access and designated bike lanes in the streets.

Don Youngdahl
This is one thing I've never understood about the Midwest... They have them everywhere else.

[Summerinside]

Um, what about in-line skaters?
Ah, the fruit boot discussion begins again...

Maybe MORC can get involved in designing the speed traps, maybe even use some of the 'speed traps' developed out at Leb. It would really keep speed down and discourage rollerbladers if the paved bikepath had some rock gardens, ledges, logs, and tight switchbacks.

[jkalla]

Um, what about in-line skaters?

I think the city is going to run into a major hurdle on that issue, not so much bikes. A bike can have a computer added to it for $15 that will tell the rider how fast he/she is going. In-line skates do not have that option, and many of the people out there skating, in particular the ones with the nice 5 wheel speedskate setup, can cruise at 20mph. Even 15mph on 4 wheel skates is easy enough to maintain.

I just know this from my own days on the 5 wheelers drafting behind guys on MTBs. I could do several consecutive laps around Harriet and keep it between 19 and 21 mph. If someone tried to "bust" me for speeding, I'd put up my hands and ask "Do you see a speedometer on me?"

I don't think that the lack of a speedometer is a good defense for a speeding ticket. I think it is your responsibility to know your speed. If I'm wrong about that - let me know - I'll disable my speedometer on my car.

[The Bull]

I will tell you that I cannot stand roller blading with my kid or pulling my kid behind the bike and having bikers flying by me on the bike trail. Some of those people belong on the roads. I am not advocating a set speed on the trails, but be considerate. I ride around <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceType>Lake</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName>Harriett</st1:PlaceName></st1:place> often and because of my speed, I ride the roads and not the bike paths. The paths are meant for casual riders and families, not training. If you want to time trial, stay off the bike paths.

[SickBoy]

Jeff - Point taken, but sometimes an adjacent road isn't always an option, e.g. Kenilworth, Midtown Greenway and Cedar Lake trails. A lot of people use these for commuting and I would say (enforcement of) a 10 MPH speedlimit is a waste of law enforcement's time, at least in those areas. I agree that places like Calhoun, Harriet, etc are not a place for going faster than 10 MPH. (Other than during the winter when no one's around :crazy2: )

[SickBoy]

And FWIW, the day I can ride around Calhoun or Harriet, (on the parkway) in a fully law-abiding manner and not get nearly run over at least four times (and yelled at by motorists that much), is the day I will stop riding on the designated "bike" path.

The article didn't totally come down on bikers. It also came down on runners in the "marathon training" group which is a huge problem, as well as the speed rollerbladers and rollerskiers. They are just as much a potential danger/problem as cyclists are.

[Trevize1138]

OK, smart@sses :crazy:

Yes, you could disable the speedometer on your car. My point was at least that's an *option* on your car.

Beyond that, though, Minneapolis is kind of known as a great place for in-line skating, believe it or not. The sport was invented here, afterall. Some of the in-line speedskating clubs in the cities love getting together for skating in a group around Calhoun and Harriet or the Cedar Lake/Kenwood/Greenway commuter trails because they're wide, smooth and ideal for the sport.

More strictly enforcing the speed limit on these trails puts a huge hinderance on some people's enjoyment of this sport, and will ultimately cause more problems than it solves, I think. It's no different than restricting skateboarding in town without providing a skate park: it encourages illegal and dangerous use.

Seems to me many of the "bike paths" in the cities were designed with in-line skaters in mind as a safer alternative to streets or sidewalks (cracks = roadrash for skaters). To now say "Sorry, you'll have to slow down or go somewhere else" is a big disingenuous.

[SickBoy]

Chris, I agree fully - I feel the exact same way about asking people on bikes to slow down on a DESIGNATED "bike" path.

Obviously there are reasons I won't ever ride fast on a path like the ones around the Chain of Lakes - but I think enforcing these rules on point-to-point trails is absurd. The trails built in the LRT corridors are designed, in part, to be bike-commuter trails. They are long, straight, and in the case of Cedar Lake, have designated trails for walking(both directions) and wheeled traffic in each direction.

Why penalize me because I can cruise comfortably on my road and commuter bikes at 16+ mph?

As a seperate rant, it makes me sick to hear complaints from walkers with pets who have the extendo-leash deals. If your dog is 30 feet away from you, that cord can be extended across triple the width of the trail and then some. Those leashes are fine in low traffic areas but they aren't suitable for higher traffic areas or where people will be coming fast. I see far too many walkers:
1. using the bike path
2. Clustering on it (run clubs)
3. leaving pets on long leashes
4. not leashing pets at all.

So it's really hard for me to feel sorry for these people.

[syntaxjunkie]

Because I never met an argument I didn't like, I'll throw this one out:

I understand and respect the right of just about anyone and everyone to travel on a bike path or commuter path. But what boggles my mind is the number of parents who choose these paths as the place to teach their children how to ride a bike.

If I had kids, it is theoretically possible that I might see this differently, but I doubt it. I'm all for getting kids into biking at young age. But if they are not skilled enough with a bicycle to at least ride in a straight line and understand the difference between right and left, they probably shouldn't be riding on a public bikeway.

[Trevize1138]

What he said :)

I do think the real issue here is walkers on bike paths and vice versa. 10 mph is sort of the slowest most wheeled traffic moves on bike paths. Yes, there are little kids, but I would think that parents who take their kids on paths like this assume the risks involved.

Runners (joggers) on the other hand at the fastest move 10 mph give or take one or two mph. Walkers, of course, you're talking 4mph at the very top end.

Someone going 16 mph passing someone at 10 mph isn't such a big deal. 16 mph passing 2-3 mph is.

[grizzly adam]

So what is the officer going to do - flash his lights at you?! Just kick it down and you'll never see him again. Until he radios ahead to his partner in a car.......

[grizzly adam]

[QUOTE=Trevize1138]Um, what about in-line skaters?QUOTE]

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[Trevize1138]

Ahem.

I said: in-line skates don't have speedometers!

Are you calling me a liar?

[QUOTE=Trevize1138]Um, what about in-line skaters?QUOTE]

<TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="5%">http://www.microsport.de/ms-eu/images/jubsm.jpg (http://www.microsport.de/ms-eu/item000x.html)</TD><TD vAlign=top width="95%">In-Line Skate Speedometer Jubilee Edition

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[grizzly adam]

Ahem.

I said: in-line skates don't have speedometers!

Are you calling me a liar?
yes - I am calling you a liar

[Trevize1138]

You have made a powerful enemy this day.

yes - I am calling you a liar

[bkyatty]

FYI- last saturday there was a Mpls Park Police parked on Wirth parkway and 20th. He was at the top of a hill behind some trees and had his radar gun out aimed at the bike path. luckily i was in my car. they are out there, so trust no one....

[grizzly adam]

Um, what about in-line skaters?

I think the city is going to run into a major hurdle on that issue, not so much bikes. A bike can have a computer added to it for $15 that will tell the rider how fast he/she is going. In-line skates do not have that option, and many of the people out there skating, in particular the ones with the nice 5 wheel speedskate setup, can cruise at 20mph. Even 15mph on 4 wheel skates is easy enough to maintain.

I just know this from my own days on the 5 wheelers drafting behind guys on MTBs. I could do several consecutive laps around Harriet and keep it between 19 and 21 mph. If someone tried to "bust" me for speeding, I'd put up my hands and ask "Do you see a speedometer on me?" <snip>
"In-line skates do not have that option,"

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Yes they do. That's why you're a liar.

You have made a powerful enemy this day.:laugh: :D :banana:

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Trevize1138]

Hey, Adam, I just came accross a picture of you!


... oh, wait, it's a picture of a pile of dog poo ... my mistake, but an understandible one, obviously. :mad:

[grizzly adam]

LOL

Was it in a bag, on fire in front of your door?!!!

[Trevize1138]

You ruined my best penny loafers with that stupid bag!! :mad:

[Don Youngdahl]

Quote: "If someone tried to "bust" me for speeding, I'd put up my hands and ask "Do you see a speedometer on me?" "

Whether or not a person has a speedometer has no bearing on whether they're in violation of a speed limit and liable for a citation. What counts is your speed, not the equipment you likely don't have.

Don Youngdahl<SNIP>

[EmL34]

LOL

Was it in a bag, on fire in front of your door?!!!Nothing these fine italian loafers can't handle...

On the speed issue..I wonder if you get a 5mph grace range. Will it be legal to use a radar detector? When is photo cop going to enter the picture? Will I need a license plate? Will red bikes be more likely to get a ticket?

[berrywise]

How many of you carry identification while out riding? Just give them a fake name and address and head on your way. 10 mph, pleeeeease.

[jitterjepp]

Man,...I've been hit like ..what... five or six times since April by people in freaking cars. What about that! They can suck my ass. What about the person who did a hit and run on me and nothing happened. I had a plate number and everything. What about that! I was following the rules. I didn't have my dog going across the path. From what I understood from the article is that the woman was not in control of her pet. Thats against the law too. I walk my dog three times a day and I'm smart enough to not let him run across bike paths. Maybe she needs some assistance walking her dog.

To hell with this! They need to look at other things that are more serious like motorists hitting people on bicycles. They need to be out there giving people in cars tickets for breaking the three foot law Minneapolis has. I even have the damn cops riding two feet away from my bike on the street. While they are speeding!!

What about the people running into bikers on the parkway. What are the park police going to do about that? What about motorists breaking the three foot law on the parkway? Are they going to start giving them tickets?

When I was fifteen I had to carry the coffin of one of my best friends because some cop was going forty miles over the speed limit two blocks from the station and he wasn't on a call. And he got away with it and nothing happened to him. The can suck my ass.

I don't go zooming along around the lakes because there are a bunch of idiots there who don't pay attention when crossing the paths, stupid people walk on them and there are just too many women around to ride fast. I also don't want to run over some little kid.

If they are going to do anything like give bikers tickets on bike paths they need to also start ticketing motorists for making things dangerous for bikers.
and one more time just because I like to say it. They can suck my ass.

[jitterjepp]

How many of you carry identification while out riding? Just give them a fake name and address and head on your way. 10 mph, pleeeeease. I'll just say "yes sir officer I was speeding and my name is Scott Haraldson":scream:
(http://%3Cb%3EScott%20Haraldson%22%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%20%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%20%3Cimg%20src=%22http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/images/smilies/scream.gif%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22%22%20titl e=%22Scream%22%20smilieid=%2241%22%20class=%22inli neimg%22%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%20%3C/b%3E)

[Tetreves]

If they are going to do anything like give bikers tickets on bike paths they need to also start ticketing motorists for making things dangerous for bikers.
and one more time just because I like to say it. They can suck my ass.
How about fining the slow-ass group of people WALKING on a BIKE trail around Calhoun, while there's a WALKING path ten feet away?

That's one of the biggest dangers on those paths and the reason I don't ride them anymore. But it's never going to change...they're only going to ticket the people that are "different" (i.e. people who bike fast for exercise)

[nigel]

I'm going to assume that most of us with the exception of the Cedar Lake corridor ride on the street right? I think this is going to be more the type of thing where the few idiots ruin it for the group. Kinda like how at Terrace Oaks I see mom and pop riders on hybrids coming off the hiking trails, not mtn bikers. It only take one idiot and the right person to see them to ruin it for a whole group. That being said, this whole ticket deal for 10mph is bull****, i wonder who complained about it to get them doing it, or are they that damn hard up for revenues?

[SickBoy]

Doug -

Generally I only ride 3 bike "paths": Cedar, Greenway/SW LRT out to Hopkins and along Wirth parkway up to the MTB trails. The last one could be foregone (and probably will) for the road. If/When I ride around calhoun or isles or harriet, I go slow anyway (babe watching)

[manual63]

Nothing these fine italian loafers can't handle...

On the speed issue..I wonder if you get a 5mph grace range. Will it be legal to use a radar detector? When is photo cop going to enter the picture? Will I need a license plate? Will red bikes be more likely to get a ticket?

Will my insurance go up if I get too many speeding tickets on my bicycle?

[manual63]

Ever since I got a ticket in SLP doing a wheelie when I was a kid, I just ditch them. There ain't a cop that can catch a skilled MTBer or BMXer. Sure, they have radios, but it's not like a car. You can go anywhere, so they will not be able to catch you like they could a car. Even the bike cops won't be able to do it. Jump a few curbs at high speed and your gone...... :D

Now if they bring out the mounted police.....that's a different story.

[grizzly adam]

and one more time just because I like to say it. They can suck my ass.
:scream: :scream:

Those are very good points though. I can't wait to be riding on the road and see some cop with his radar gun out. Then I can sprint past him, turn around and ask him how fast I was going!

Just this morning we saw a cop putting up one of those free-standing speedsigns in our neighborhood. Funny, cuz it's not a busy street at all. But it's fun to sprint by it and watch my speed go up!

[grizzly adam]

You ruined my best penny loafers with that stupid bag!! :mad:
GASP!! I hope the penny with your birthyear is still okay.

[TrailPatrol]

How many of you carry identification while out riding? Just give them a fake name and address and head on your way. 10 mph, pleeeeease.

Giving false identification would jump the violation/misdemeanor right up to a gross misdemeanor or felony. The solution, folks, is not to avoid or intentionally break the law. The solution is get the stupid law changed! The "flip-flop" of the Park Board on bladers as opposed to bikes is evidence that the statements were made without a lot of forethought. Also, their own Park Police/Parol bike cops should be able to tell them that 10 MPH is too slow for both bikes and blades.

We have a good working relationship with the park board now, and a mayor who is an avid cyclist. I think talking to them and working with them and the city council is the way to get this changed, not lying to the cops or trying to outrun them.

But that's the park ranger in me speaking.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[transplant]

On the speed issue..I wonder if you get a 5mph grace range. Will it be legal to use a radar detector? When is photo cop going to enter the picture? Will I need a license plate? Will red bikes be more likely to get a ticket?

What's cool is the cops will be stereotyping bikers by pulling over all the kids on their "souped up" bikes, leaving old farts like me to cruise at will. :banana: :banana:

[grizzly adam]

How many of you carry identification while out riding? Just give them a fake name and address and head on your way. 10 mph, pleeeeease.

Giving false identification would jump the violation/misdemeanor right up to a gross misdemeanor or felony. The solution, folks, is not to avoid or intentionally break the law. The solution is get the stupid law changed! The "flip-flop" of the Park Board on bladers as opposed to bikes is evidence that the statements were made without a lot of forethought. Also, their own Park Police/Parol bike cops should be able to tell them that 10 MPH is too slow for both bikes and blades.

We have a good working relationship with the park board now, and a mayor who is an avid cyclist. I think talking to them and working with them and the city council is the way to get this changed, not lying to the cops or trying to outrun them.

But that's the park ranger in me speaking.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans
Good point. I bet Gary S. at QBC would be a good person to talk to as well. He's done a TON for cycling in our city and probably knows about this already.

[jitterjepp]

How many of you carry identification while out riding? Just give them a fake name and address and head on your way. 10 mph, pleeeeease.

Giving false identification would jump the violation/misdemeanor right up to a gross misdemeanor or felony. The solution, folks, is not to avoid or intentionally break the law. The solution is get the stupid law changed! The "flip-flop" of the Park Board on bladers as opposed to bikes is evidence that the statements were made without a lot of forethought. Also, their own Park Police/Parol bike cops should be able to tell them that 10 MPH is too slow for both bikes and blades.

We have a good working relationship with the park board now, and a mayor who is an avid cyclist. I think talking to them and working with them and the city council is the way to get this changed, not lying to the cops or trying to outrun them.

But that's the park ranger in me speaking.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans I'm not going to give them a false name. I'm going to stop and after I get my ticket I'm going to tell them I need to fill out a report on the cop who did nothing when someone commited a felony hit and run.

[manual63]

It's almost winter. Cops might be out now and making this effort, but I bet by Spring....they will all have forgotten about it. It's happened before where they were checking up on bikers, but it didn't last long. They tried to catch me for not having a license. But I was able to take off and the guy almost grabbed me. It must have been inches......LOL. That was back in my BMX days in the late 80's.

[EmL34]

Will my insurance go up if I get too many speeding tickets on my bicycle?
Good one!

If I go more 25 mph over the limit will it be an automatic wreckless driving ticket?

I wonder if they will offer mediation...

[EmL34]

...But that's the park ranger in me speaking.
Hans
I want to hear more from the funny guy in you.

[jjrsds]

So if the cops have to chase you to give you a ticket will they call in backup? Maybe they will throw a spike strip and try to give you flat tires. Coming soon to Wildest Police chases.

[EmL34]

Dispatch this is Lincoln, Mary - 3. Suspect is riding a Blue Mountain Bike and heading south across lawns adjacent to Standish Ave...

[Ish]

roger that Lincoln..... I have mounted my huffy and am in hot pursuit!

[TrailPatrol]

I want to hear more from the funny guy in you.
No more funny guy. I want to be the bad cop. I never get to be the bad cop. I always have to be the good cop. Either that, or I'll be the crazy cop, like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon. :crazy2:

Later,
Hans

[fasterfoster]

Good one!

If I go more 25 mph over the limit will it be an automatic wreckless driving ticket?
Are just the park police involved? I say bring on the State Patrol and their stop watches. I want to be the first cyclist in Minnesota clocked at 200+mph!!