View Full Version : Minnesota's Best Trail (according to Mountain Bike Mag)
gopherhockey
09-25-2004, 03:32 PM
And the winner is.... Lutsen, obviously!
Ok.. so I too was scratching my head when I read this... but hey, they mentioned morcmtb.org twice in the small paragraph within an article about the 50 best trails in the US (one in each state).
And hey... for those trails not winning - thats less outsiders being attracted to our (other) best trails.
(I'm not knocking Lutsen by any means, I'm sure its good riding and nice for the DH rider in our state.)
Winter 2004 "special adventure issue" - Mountain Bike Magazine
nigel
09-25-2004, 04:43 PM
And the winner is.... Lutsen, obviously!
Ok.. so I too was scratching my head when I read this... but hey, they mentioned morcmtb.org twice in the small paragraph within an article about the 50 best trails in the US (one in each state).
And hey... for those trails not winning - thats less outsiders being attracted to our (other) best trails.
(I'm not knocking Lutsen by any means, I'm sure its good riding and nice for the DH rider in our state.)
Winter 2004 "special adventure issue" - Mountain Bike Magazine
Hrmmmm, it is a great trail, but for overall in the state?!?!?! Either way, we got mention!!!!
gopherhockey
09-25-2004, 08:59 PM
Hrmmmm, it is a great trail, but for overall in the state?!?!?! Either way, we got mention!!!!
Exactly!!! :banana:
Don Youngdahl
09-25-2004, 11:15 PM
(I'm not knocking Lutsen by any means, I'm sure its good riding and nice for the DH rider in our state.)
I cought that singular case for downhill rider - 'fess up John, was that a typo, a Freudian slip, or a deliberate reference to the popularity of downhill riding in Minnesota?
Don Youngdahl
TrailPatrol
09-25-2004, 11:36 PM
Just how much does "best" equate with "best publiclized"? We have lots of good trails in this state, and despite what John may think, they are not all in Dakota County, or even the metro area. I am not denying that Lutsen in a lot of fun, and heck, it's even "out-state." But if you need a PR department to be the best, maybe we all need to get off our butts next year and show them what else there is in this state!
Yeah well go ride your XC trails, damn no respect on these boards for DH/FRers what so ever, I am dissappointed, maybe we should call this the METRO XC off-road cyclists club...
L8R
Buck
berrywise
09-26-2004, 12:57 AM
Yeah well go ride your XC trails, damn no respect on these boards for DH/FRers what so ever, I am dissappointed, maybe we should call this the METRO XC off-road cyclists club...
L8R
Buck
Man I just had a big response that evaluated both sides but somehow the computer managed to lose it.
Shorter recap. Mountain biking is not downhill or uphill. It's up down and everythign in between. In my mind the best trail should have all that. Lutsen ranks up high on my list but take away the lifts and add in the cost to ride and it dips a little bit to me.
As far as a bias on the boards well go figure there are more xc'ers in the state and well most of us do live around the cities so you can just expect that. Plus many of the users here work on the trails around the metro so they feel a close connection to them. Seems natural enough to me.
Now for the real best all around riding in the state one must head south to Winona. Not that I have a bias or anything I did live there for five years :D
Yeah well go ride your XC trails, damn no respect on these boards for DH/FRers what so ever, I am disappointed, maybe we should call this the METRO XC off-road cyclists club...
L8R
Buck
Come on, this is Minnesota... the best trails in this area are twisty singletrack on dark, packed soil through wooded, rolling terrain. THAT is signature MN riding.
The reason people are complaining about Lutsen being picked as the best in the state is because Lutsen is not typical MN riding - it is Minnesota's best example of western style riding. People disagree with the mag because it picked the trail that best resembles trails in the Rockies, not which trail epitomizes riding in Minnesota.
Of course there are areas that have some awesome steep, rocky trails (bluffs area in SE MN and the North Shore), but it doesn't compare to out west.
It is unfortunate that you perceived this as having no respect for DH/FRers. Like berrywise said, most MTB riders are XC riders, and the metro area is the most populous area of the state, so most MORC posters will fall in that category. It's a fact, deal with it - it has nothing to do with a lack of respect for DH/FRers. You should be trying and get these people on your side, not cop an attitude toward them. This attitude only hurts your (and our!) cause. This attitude won't build legal DH/FR areas... and it certainly won't make FRing more socially acceptable.
My bad, I guess I read the original post wrong, I took it as a pot shot at DH/FRers, who I will defend to the death. I did not mean to cop out an attitude on anyone. DH/FR is obviously something that alot of riders on this board have no want to dabble in...I personally think it is the best thing to happen to riding, being that I used to ride and race XC way back when(99, lol) And I have tried to get support from people on this board: I regularily post pics up, invite riders, and ride all over the place no matter what the riding is and I have dealt with it, I ride solo, I put up with unneeded crap, here in Duluth where people simply look at me and say we don;t do that here...I regularily let people that seem interested ride my bike, even if I don;t know them, I attend as many races as possible, heck I even helped build the Greenman Down course so that it could be raced on the next day, I pitch it to all riders I ride with, I influenced the bike shop in Rochester to carry more FR oriented bikes, I would say that I am an outstanding ambassador for the FR/DH cause, but I don't think many people on this board would see that or hear about it for that matter, you guys for the most part do the XC thing...but to me this is the wrong crowd to preach to, some of the riders on this board do seem to like and do the other end of riding, others seem dead set against and that is to be expected, but from what I know most of the DH/FR crowd won't post here for that reason, they aren't really accepted here, but anywhoo whatever, If they write and article about Lutsen maybe Lutsen will get their act together, b/c they could definitly make some very awesome stuff up there for all styles and skill level!!! I'm not trying to piss anyone off, I'm just pointing out something I see on this board. and my roomis lookin over my shoulder wants to know how FR is socially unacceptable???
L8R
Buck
TrailPatrol
09-26-2004, 09:55 AM
The problem with "mountain bikes" is that there is an automatic, but not always rational connection to mountainous terrain just in the name. I am not deriding downhillers or freeriders at all. In fact IMBA devoted a whole issue of IMBA Trail News to freeriding earlier this year. And I have long expressed on these pages my enjoyment of long XC (like overnight) riding. I just think MBM picked something that had great PR and looked most like a "mountain" to their western-type riding minds. Lutsen and Spirit Mtn. are great, but mountain biking in MN is by nature more XC than DH. To me, that's cool, but I'm just me.
Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans
"Explore on two wheels."-Adventure Cycling Association
my roomis lookin over my shoulder wants to know how FR is socially unacceptable???I think you answered your own question:
I put up with unneeded crap, here in Duluth where people simply look at me and say we don;t do that here...
Urban FR is accepted by the general public?? In addition to urban FRing, illegally built FR trails across the country have portrayed FRers as anti-establishment.
Lastly:
I would say that I am an outstanding ambassador for the FR/DH cause
From the posts I've seen I'd totally agree (as long as the trails you built aren't on public land), so I was kind of surprised when you posted with such an attitude.
manual63
09-26-2004, 11:37 AM
From the posts I've seen I'd totally agree (as long as the trails you built aren't on public land), so I was kind of surprised when you posted with such an attitude.
It's tough. I understand why Adam is what I call thightly wound when the DH/FR subject comes up. I delt with it for years with BMX and Skateboarding. I don't think anyone here disrespects freeriding or downhill at all. I think some people feel threatened by it a little. XC riding has been around for a long time, and now Freeriding comes in and starts to make the sport evolve and now the freeriders are getting most of the attention. I remember in the early 80's when Freestyle BMX came around. BMX racers hated BMX Freestylers. Well, it was mostly because all the magazines started to publish most of it's content about freestylers and had more pictures of them, for obvious reasons. I have to admit, I would rather see an air on a ramp than a group of guys racing around a track in neon clothes. Racing is fun to do, but not really fun to watch. Well, same goes for mountain biking. Would you rather see a picture of some guy riding singletrack in the woods and a dude bustin' a 20 plus foot air off a cliff?
All and all, I don't think anyone disrespects anyone, but the sport is definately changing right now. I don't think XC riding will go away. It's much to fun and with places like Leb and Wirth, you will never get bored with it....not even me.....someone who rides skateparks.
You know what I always have said in my BMX days and it applies well now?
JUST RIDE!
EmL34
09-26-2004, 11:53 AM
Come ride the annual party course and forget all of this nonsense. The best trail in Minnesota is the one you're on at the moment.
And the winner is.... Lutsen, obviously!
Ok.. so I too was scratching my head when I read this... but hey, they mentioned morcmtb.org twice in the small paragraph within an article about the 50 best trails in the US (one in each state).
And hey... for those trails not winning - thats less outsiders being attracted to our (other) best trails.
(I'm not knocking Lutsen by any means, I'm sure its good riding and nice for the DH rider in our state.)
Winter 2004 "special adventure issue" - Mountain Bike MagazineThe results were from a contest Mountain Bike magazine had earlier this year. For a chance to win a bike you had to vote for your state's best trail from a predefined list including Holzinger (Winona), Battle Creek, Mt Kato, Lutsen and Blast (Elk River). A pretty limited selection to choose from and there was no options for a write-in vote. But as Eric said:
The best trail is the one you're riding at the moment.
mtnbykr
09-26-2004, 12:59 PM
.... but the sport is definately changing right now.
don't really think is changeing, just new offshoots of the same thing. if you're riding thru the woods, not watching your hr monitor, you're freeriding.
when you do all the fun stunts at leb, guess what...you're freeriding.
so that makes all of us freeriders....
JUST RIDE!
probably the best thing you've said on these forums....
kl
lol, I guess, I have to admit I stirred the pot last night, I was bored and was lookin for reactions, all this is great. I like to hear what people think, I'm not offended by any of this, it's the internet to take any of this seriously would be ludacris, and if not that it should be taken with a grain of salt! In the process I hi-jacked thread to a completely different subject, even if some of the stuff was true...no matter, the trails I like best are the ones I make, although I know it will never get mention from a mag, I don't need that, I just like seeing the look on riders faces when they rip 'em and want to go another round at it, that is the best feeling to trailbuilding! well time to ride on this most beatiful Sunday!
L8R
Buck
gopherhockey
09-26-2004, 02:36 PM
I cought that singular case for downhill rider - 'fess up John, was that a typo, a Freudian slip, or a deliberate reference to the popularity of downhill riding in Minnesota?
Don YoungdahlWe have more than one? ;)
Just kidding...
Seriously when I think of best trail I think of things most do not. I'm not concerned with the riding style (DH, XC etc.) so much as the overall package and appeal. Being typically MN is part of it... being sustainable is part of it... having distance, variety, etc. And if its nationally advertised, does a trail have enough appeal to attract outsiders that come just to ride that one certain trail? (this being an area we are lacking in but gaining ground for sure..)
More or less I am always curious where these mags get their data. Most books or online trail sites are sadly outdated. To not pick some of the obvious trails means they aren't having a true contest and are not advertising the right info for our state. We are represented by Lutsen, but there are others that apparently weren't even in the running. Lebanon, for example, might not be THE best but it should always be included IMHO. For the most part I'm ok that it wasn't... but would like to see some of these books that skip trails like Terrace and Battle Creek and label Lebanon as a 2.5 mile outer warmup loop get updated.
The important thing was that morc got mentioned twice, so hopefully in the end people reading that mag will come here to investigate and then see all the other great trails we have to offer.
Not that I want more traffic on the trails mind you ;)
Maybe someday one of these mags will step up and have some REAL info on the local riding scene...
As for the whole DH vs. XC... where is that beating dead horse picture again?
manual63
09-27-2004, 09:37 AM
I don't need that, I just like seeing the look on riders faces when they rip 'em and want to go another round at it, that is the best feeling to trailbuilding! well time to ride on this most beatiful Sunday!
L8R
Buck
I feel the same way when I teach others how to do certain things on a bike. That is why I had John start the riding tips section. I like it when I can see a rider do something, then I give them some pointers and watch them ride a section much better and smoother because of it. Yeah, it's cool to see that look on their face......like....."Wow, I can actually do this" kinda look.....usually with a smile on their face.
We have such a good riding scene up here and it doesn't matter what some MTB mag says. All of you are part of probably one of the best riding scenes in the country and I think we should all be proud of what we accomplished. MORC gets a big thumbs up for bringing us all together and allowing us to talk politics.....I mean......riding here in the Forums.
The year end party is a good place for all of us to come together and celebrate what we have done over the past few years.
SickBoy
09-27-2004, 10:15 AM
The results were from a contest Mountain Bike magazine had earlier this year. For a chance to win a bike you had to vote for your state's best trail from a predefined list including Holzinger (Winona), Battle Creek, Mt Kato, Lutsen and Blast (Elk River). A pretty limited selection to choose from and there was no options for a write-in vote. But as Eric said:
The best trail is the one you're riding at the moment.
No offense to mr. Garnjobst or anyone else involved with BC but HOW THE HECK did BC get on that list. And Kato... great place to race but I loathe all the pea gravel they dumped all over that trail. My idea of the list should have been: Lutsen, Holzinger, Elk River (cuz they were already there), Lebanon, the Farm/Farm II, and Memorial Park... that would have been a decent list to choose from IMHO.
SickBoy
09-27-2004, 10:16 AM
As for the whole DH vs. XC... where is that beating dead horse picture again?
yeah it's the whole "bashing the roadie" thing you started in the Road forum...
:crazy2:
gopherhockey
09-27-2004, 12:02 PM
yeah it's the whole "bashing the roadie" thing you started in the Road forum...
:crazy2:Touche! ;)
Hey wait.. I am a roadie... :fool:
SickBoy
09-27-2004, 02:36 PM
Touche! ;)
Hey wait.. I am a roadie... :fool:
Not a bigger roadie than I am.
:etard:
I wear Silver reflective Castelli shorts and PROUD OF IT. Except that team ride in the rain... and then I wasn't so proud....
grizzly adam
09-27-2004, 04:12 PM
Bigger how?? Shoe size, short size what?
I've been unfortunate enough to see those silver shorts and let me tell you, rain or no rain, they're not pretty!
I've been unfortunate enough to see those silver shorts and let me tell you, rain or no rain, they're not pretty!
They had some silver ones at the Castelli sample sale last week. Sounds like I made the right choice by not picking them up :etard:
SickBoy
09-28-2004, 11:00 AM
Dude I am going for white shorts next time just to spite all of you. :)
grizzly adam
09-28-2004, 11:02 AM
:crazy2: If that's the case, then it's a good thing you're not doing as many MTB races next year! :sick: :sick:
KleinCrazy
09-28-2004, 11:31 AM
Dude I am going for white shorts next time just to spite all of you. :)
Good Lord... everyone pray for NO RAIN!!!!!!
grizzly adam
09-28-2004, 11:48 AM
Does anyone know how the trails made it to the list? Is there any way we can add to the list for next year?
crashnburn
09-28-2004, 01:05 PM
don't really think is changeing, just new offshoots of the same thing. if you're riding thru the woods, not watching your hr monitor, you're freeriding.
when you do all the fun stunts at leb, guess what...you're freeriding.
so that makes all of us freeriders....
Oh the drama and humanity in this thread!
I don't totally disagree with you, but how can you say these offshoots are not change? It's really more of a combination... Freeriders are taking things from urban, bmx, trials, and xc and merging them into something that is cooler, IMHO, than any one of the parts.
That said, I disagree with what you said about everyone being freeriders, although that's not to say they couldn't be. I lived on the EC for a while where the DH/FR scene is pretty big. To me, a freerider isn't someone who goes and rides stuff because it's on the trail, anyone can do that. A freerider is someone who rides the terrain rather than just seeing the trail and sees things other people may not. It's not that they're going to boost a huge air or trick, but more they look at the trail and terrain differently...
mtnbykr
09-28-2004, 05:16 PM
I don't totally disagree with you, but.........
thanks for expressing your opinion.
kl
gopherhockey
09-28-2004, 05:57 PM
To me, a freerider isn't someone who goes and rides stuff because it's on the trail, anyone can do that. A freerider is someone who rides the terrain rather than just seeing the trail and sees things other people may not. It's not that they're going to boost a huge air or trick, but more they look at the trail and terrain differently...
I assume you mean they are at least sticking to the trail and not branching out riding non-existing trails..
This, to me, sounds more like someone who isn't a sheep and enjoys seeking out new lines. Being primarily XC (in my mind) I do this all the time... so I guess then I'm an XC freerider ;)
This debate probably belongs elsewhere though...
crashnburn
09-28-2004, 07:11 PM
thanks for expressing your opinion.Is this supposed to be sarcasm? It is the internet after all, if you don't like my opinion because disagreed with you, I suggest you put me on ignore. I'm not good at figuring sarcasm out from typing, please add a ;), :banana:,:beer_yum: , or :etard:next time...
I assume you mean they are at least sticking to the trail and not branching out riding non-existing trails..
This, to me, sounds more like someone who isn't a sheep and enjoys seeking out new lines. Being primarily XC (in my mind) I do this all the time... so I guess then I'm an XC freerider ;)
This debate probably belongs elsewhere though...Sure, you can be the first one. Although you're going to get awfully hot in a full face and body armor when you're climbing up the hill. Also, spandex doesn't fit real well over the armour.
As for the riding off the trail... It depends on whether I had any part in building or maintaining the trails and whose land it is.
nigel
09-28-2004, 07:19 PM
A freerider is someone who rides the terrain rather than just seeing the trail and sees things other people may not. It's not that they're going to boost a huge air or trick, but more they look at the trail and terrain differently...Kidna like a state of mind type thing, or a different view on things than others? If thats what you mean i agree! Ive ridden some urban stuff and some trails with freeride guys and they see things i would have never looked at or tried. Its like xc riders (me) dont look at the whole picture (trail) enough, and freeriders see everything as a possiblitly to ride. Which has made me look at everything a lot more when riding, and making it more fun in the process.
D
crashnburn
09-28-2004, 07:59 PM
Kidna like a state of mind type thing, or a different view on things than others? If thats what you mean i agree! Ive ridden some urban stuff and some trails with freeride guys and they see things i would have never looked at or tried. Its like xc riders (me) dont look at the whole picture (trail) enough, and freeriders see everything as a possiblitly to ride. Which has made me look at everything a lot more when riding, and making it more fun in the process.
D
exactly what I mean
gopherhockey
09-28-2004, 09:08 PM
Sure, you can be the first one. Although you're going to get awfully hot in a full face and body armor when you're climbing up the hill. Also, spandex doesn't fit real well over the armour.
Spandex? Who wears spandex... thats like saying a freeriders nosering and long hair would get caught in the trees where I ride. :p
To Doug's point, I've ridden behind people who had a whole different outlook on the trail than I do. I'm going fast and straight saving time but having fun. They are all over the trail as if its a playground. Fun to watch... but I also picked up on it and can do the same things.
I just don't wear armor... so the same question goes, am I now a freerider if I'm doing the same thing? Its fairly easy for me to break out of my normal routine and play around on the trail - but I don't feel the need for armor to do it. (although it probably wouldn't hurt)
I think each person takes on a different attitude and enjoyment when they are out on the trail. Personally I have a hard time with these labels... when we use them, one starts to wonder where the lines are drawn. (especially on the average trails around here where the 15lb. bike does just about anything a 50lb. bike can do.... assuming you are sticking to legal trails)
Its like the Warren Miller movies of the past - always ski ski ski... then snowboarding came along, got a small chunk of the action. Then they wised up and called it snow riding.
That means I'm not a freerider, a racer, or an XC or any of that... I'm a trail rider and I like it. ;)
Now can't we all just get along? :D
Tell ya what, you guys need to ride with a dude named Thor, he rides a Bullit, he will open your mind to what is possible on any trail...he sees things that most would never see and then he nails it...you will see, yes you will see...as for all the hits at spandex and armor and what not, sometimes I armor up and others I don't. If you want to push your limits you mind as well dress for the crash...and I bring up another point, why is it that everytime you post up gopher hockey, you always mention FRers with illegal trails??? You say you don;t label riding, but at the same time I'm pretty sure I can say that one time or an other members on this board have ridden there fair share of illegal trails, be that BMX, XC, DH, FR...whatever it maybe, but you seem most content pinning it on DH/FRers. Please expain beyond that; it is what magazines tell you...
L8R
Buck
...and I bring up another point, why is it that everytime you post up gopher hockey, you always mention FRers with illegal trails??? Well Buck... I've put the bait out there a couple times and you didn't bite, so I'll just come straight out and ask...
Are those trails you built in Plainview legal?
A little history:
Back in the earlier days of MTBing, XC riders built trails that suited their type of riding. Fun trails... not always sustainable... and often illegal. After years of working toward legitimizing MTBing, gaining access to land, and finally building some sweet legal trails, the core (XC) MTB community has moved away from building illegal trails. Then along comes a new approach to MTBing called Freeriding - the problem is many of the legal trails don't suit this new approach to riding. Therefore, illegal FR trails begin to be built. I don't think this connection between FR and illegal trails can be denied, although it's probably not as significant and widespread as the MTB media makes it seem.
You are right, many of us have probably ridden illegal trails at some point (and maybe even built some too), but there are reasons we don't want to go back to that stage in MTBing history - mostly because that would be moving the sport backwards. This is where FRers need to step up, learn from the people that came before them, and skip the illegal trail building phase.
Whether hardcore XC riders like it or not, the FR approach is going to effect the sport of MTBing in some way or form. It is our job to make it a positive effect.
I'll get off the soapbox now...
Hey FSSS,
Yes I know that people on this board have tried to get me to say wether it is a legal trail or not, my stance on that is I'm not really sure...the trail has been there for years I simply enhanced it, there were many a permanent deer stand along this trail, obviously used by humans well before I started using it.
Yeah I know the history of mountain biking, the very first trails made were uber illegal. And yes while DH/FRers are getting pegged with the current bunch of illegal trails it is for the most part a very small and getting smaller group of people...which I do agree is a good thing. That is why I signed up for the trail building class, and have also shown immense interest in a FR park near my house at Steeple Chase Ski Area. But another approach one taken from a FRers point of view is that people would rather make it a whole new thing, like some of the posters on this board, would rather peg FRing as a "socially unacceptable sport" without backing it up at all(Yes, there are illegal trails but there are illegal trails for every form of off-road use, but that certainly doesn't make them socially unacceptable)...we don't like your new style of riding b/c we like old school, you can't build here, what do you think is going to happen...I have never posted here bash talking XCers and never would, that is what MTBing started as, hell I rode XC for six years before I even knew that FRing exsisted. And now I am in it hook line and sinker...I can do things with my bike that I would've NEVER done on a 20pd XC bike, hell I've broken two XC frames and I'm a little dude at 135...so now I'm on my hefty DH bike(50pds) that I can rip on...does that make me socially unacceptable? Seems like the samething that Sk8 boarders, snow boarders, even the XC guys got pegged with now people in the same sport are doing it to FRers. But hey man whatever the sport is changing and in my eyes for the better, no matter what kinda bike or style you may choose, it is good thing that the sport is revitalizing, it will help all riders in the long run...we should embrace the people that are pumping money into an industry that needs. I'm done with this thread man, I just want to ride...:cool: riding is riding is still riding...I just choose to do it with a fullface, pads,and a heavy bike...damn it's late and this probably makes no sense what so ever!!! :geek:
L8R
Buck
TrailPatrol
09-29-2004, 01:24 AM
My instructions are:
Aim the front wheel in any direction. Apply pressure to the pedals. Follow the front wheel wherever it goes. Interesting? Usually. Adventure? Sometimes. Exploration? Priceless! The greatest adventure lies beyond the next bend in the trail.
XC? Yeah, I guess so, but not in the terms you are probably thinking. I hate going in concentric circles. When I go "XC" I want to really X a lot of C. 40 pounds of panniers and gear. or 50 lbs. in the BoB trailer, and "boldly go."
Freeriding? No, not as I understand it from the IMBA thing. If that's your cup of tea, more power to you. Cycling is big enough for whatever you want to do (or not do) on your bike. For me it's the lure of the long trail/road/route. For someone else, it may be all that hairy North Shore Freeride stuff. Others ride road bikes. None of it is wrong, and all of it should be fun. If it stops being fun, stop doing it.
They didn't ask about the best bike trail in the country, but in my mind it would be the Great Divide MTB Route. 2500+ miles through some of the most beautiful terrain in America. You may not agree. You are welcome to your opinion too. I'll be heading around that next bend in the trail.
Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans
gopherhockey
09-29-2004, 08:33 AM
You are right, many of us have probably ridden illegal trails at some point (and maybe even built some too), but there are reasons we don't want to go back to that stage in MTBing history - mostly because that would be moving the sport backwards. This is where FRers need to step up, learn from the people that came before them, and skip the illegal trail building phase.
Whether hardcore XC riders like it or not, the FR approach is going to effect the sport of MTBing in some way or form. It is our job to make it a positive effect.
This pretty much summs up what I was getting at as well. I just want to see FR be embraced but done properly. I don't want to see people going after new trails regardless of their current label.
And about the guy with armor and the 50lb. bike - have him come out to Lebanon sometime and show me some stuff (while sticking to the trail of course)... I'd be happy to be schooled. I ride there every other day, if there are lines I'm missing I wanna know. As much talent as this guy has, I have no doubt the group I ride with could also show him a thing or two as well. Each group and each rider has their talent, thats why group rides are so fun - frankly I could give a rats you-know-what about the flavor of bike or style they chose... its all good! ;)
And with that, whenever this topic comes up I'm going to agree with everyone that says that all riding types are important and its our job to embrace them all - not divide them... but also within the goals of MORC we need to remind everyone to stick to the trails, follow the rules, ride safe, but above all else have FUN out there...
manual63
09-29-2004, 09:42 AM
I assume you mean they are at least sticking to the trail and not branching out riding non-existing trails..
This, to me, sounds more like someone who isn't a sheep and enjoys seeking out new lines. Being primarily XC (in my mind) I do this all the time... so I guess then I'm an XC freerider ;)
This debate probably belongs elsewhere though...
Well, unfortunately this is how MTB riding was created. This is why I stress that the MTB community supports freeriding and helps build courses and such. If they don't, the freeride movement will be more rebelious and do more damage. Think skaters in Downtown. To me, the difference is that we are talking man made stuff vs nature. I would rather worry about protecting nature than a man made bench downtown.
Freestyle BMX came from BMX racing. Basically, when free is tacked on to something it's a statement meaning there are no rules. In Freestyle it means you can create whatever you feel like. Use your imagination if you will. That is how tricks are invented. So in my opinion.....following a trail is not really freeriding, but I have found some places in the XX-Loop that I just kind of bust off something. One of my favorites is in a section with a rock in the middle. Most riders go to the right or left of the big rock. I just hit that sucker and get as much air off of it as I can. To me, that's freeriding. I just see something and go for it. Instead of just rolling over a log......catch some air over them and throw in a kickout.....right Phillip?
Freeriding and Freestyle BMX are states of mind more than anything. It's allowing yourself and your skills to go beyond the norm. Pretty simple for some.....not so simple for others.....but who really cares ......JUST RIDE!!!
LOL, well I'm glad everyone agrees on some part, of something, some of the time...But anywhoo since I'm a lucky college kid with no class today...I'm off to rip a sk8 park with my DH bike...you all have fun at work...;) :D :cool:
Buck
Magic
09-29-2004, 12:07 PM
Ride now Buck, your day will come when you will join the masses and WORK FOR A LIVING. Have a good ride.:banana:
Trevize1138
09-29-2004, 01:02 PM
Here's the big reason people like Buck might feel defensive:
XC riding *is* more popular and more mainstream than DH or FR riding. And, I expect it will always be so, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just the nature of the beast.
It's no different than more people being into walking than DH or FR riding: it's easier for *most* people to do. I, personally, am an XC rider because I simply don't have the guts to do that crazy stuff you guys do. I have absolutely nothing against that type of riding, and I admire guys who do it as something I can't do, but my lack of interest in a freeride or downhill park certainly does not mean I'm *against* that type of riding.
It's like someone talking about Wham! reunion concert. Sure, I know there would be people who would love it, but I'm just not that interested in it and therefore wouldn't bother volunteering to help set up the stage for the event. :crazy:
Guess I would suggest accepting your fate: your favorite type of riding is not widly popular like XC and will never be. But, that's not a *bad* thing! It means you're part of an elite, exclusive group, which is kind of what you like about it too, I'm sure.
Now, as for the original topic, I agree that listing Lutsen as the prime mountain biking location in MN isn't the smartest move, for much the same reasons most others here have pointed out: MN is not a downhill MTB state! Would they list the best trails in Colorado as ones that snake through some trees along a river with barely over 200 ft of vertical over the entire length? No, that's not the kind of riding that *predominates* in Colorado, now is it?
manual63
09-29-2004, 01:09 PM
Now, as for the original topic, I agree that listing Lutsen as the prime mountain biking location in MN isn't the smartest move, for much the same reasons most others here have pointed out: MN is not a downhill MTB state! Would they list the best trails in Colorado as ones that snake through some trees along a river with barely over 200 ft of vertical over the entire length? No, that's not the kind of riding that *predominates* in Colorado, now is it?
Which explains why someone from an MTB mag who probably comes from one of those states comes here looking for something familiar to them......rather then realizing MN is a different kind of riding terrain and adjusting their opion based on where they are rather than what they are used to.
Magic
09-29-2004, 02:20 PM
We all ride for our own personal reasons. Whether it's XC, DH, DS or Freeride, the fact of the matter is we are riding. That is the common thread between us all that ride. One type is no better than the other. If we keep an open mind to all kinds of riding, we all benifit from it. One persons 20 foot huck is equal to 20 miles of sweet single track to another. We as a group need to embrace all forms of legal riding. I myself don't place a label on the type of riding I do. I just ride (like Shad always says). Theres a place for all of us in the cycling community. We can't degrade one type over another, we're only shooting ourselves in the foot. I do believe that the infighting will in the long run destroy our sport. Like it says on the Harley t-shirt "Live to ride, Ride to live".:)
hey man,
I'm not being defensive I know that XC is more mainstream I have no problem with that at all, one of the reason I chose to get into FR/DH is b/c it is something that not a lot of people do. For example I went to the sk8 park last night the coolest thing happened, I mentioned to the people that were there that I didn't think I should be ridng in here if I'll be in the way, well damn the response I got was amazing, they all said hell no, you're doin some cool stuff, and you haven't gotten in anyone's way yet. By the end of the night, I bet 99% of the people there had throwin a leg over my bike!!! Very cool to me to be in such a unique segement of mountain biking.
Yes I know my fate there are few FR/DH but that doesn;t mean that people can take plugs at it, that is all I am sayin. And as far as you helpin with a FR/DH park in MN, I don't think people with mostly XC as a riding background should help design a FR/DH park anyway...that's just me though...anyway we all ride bike and infighting is bad, but this has still maintained for the most part as a discussion and not a flame contest. anyone on wheels is cool to me, I just like to see what people think and that is what I am gettin here fine with me, take what I say however you would like..good, bad or otherwise, it's just the internet... I certainly don't mean to step on toes but I do like to ruffle the feathers ocassionaly...;)
L8R
Buck
Trevize1138
09-29-2004, 03:05 PM
Hey, like I said: I got nothing against DH and FR guys. I just wish they'd go to hell and die is all. That's not too much to ask.
:crazy:
Aaroneous
09-29-2004, 03:32 PM
I'm just sick of hearing the word "freeride"... ;)
Everyone has to name their own little genre in order to make themselves feel special... "I'm not in a rock band, I'm in a Post-Modern-Noise-Fusion-Jazz-Rock band." Sure you are. :fool:
HAHAHA, well.. I HOPE YOU BREAK YOUR FACE, you unskilled XC rider...:crazy: :laugh: ...FLAME AWAY!!!
L8R
Buck
manual63
09-29-2004, 04:05 PM
I'm just sick of hearing the word "freeride"... ;)
Everyone has to name their own little genre in order to make themselves feel special... "I'm not in a rock band, I'm in a Post-Modern-Noise-Fusion-Jazz-Rock band." Sure you are. :fool:
I don't mind labels....otherwise....what the heck do you call it. If you say I am going freeriding, any up to date rider will have a pretty good idea about what you are going to do. Then you don't have to explain it to them.
So, since you don't like labels......why don't you get rid of your name? I know a guy who changed his name to a symbol once...........man.....what a rebel he was.........:laugh: :laugh:
"The MORCer formerly known as Aaroneous" is what we will call you from now on..... :laugh:
transplant
09-29-2004, 04:23 PM
I don't mind labels....otherwise....what the heck do you call it. If you say I am going freeriding, any up to date rider will have a pretty good idea about what you are going to do. Then you don't have to explain it to them.
Labels are good. If Buck was to call me up and say "Let's go mountain biking", I'd be screwed if I showed up on my SS hardtail. The same if he showed up on his FR rig if I invited him to a ride with lots of climbing. When he says "Let's go freeriding", I can tell him "Hell no" and not go die doing something I have no business doing.
Aaroneous
09-29-2004, 04:29 PM
"The MORCer formerly known as Aaroneous" is what we will call you from now on..... :laugh:
Now that's a label I can live with! All I need is a shiny purple skinsuit and a gold-plated bike.
Trevize1138
09-29-2004, 04:38 PM
I love labels. I think everyone should decide on a label and then have that tattooed on their foreheads. This would help me not fear the unknown so much.
grizzly adam
09-29-2004, 04:39 PM
I know one for you.....
:p
Trevize1138
09-29-2004, 04:57 PM
Yes, and unfortunately there can only be one forehead with the words "Supreme Stud of the Universe" tatooed on it, and that would have to be mine.
I know one for you.....
:p
OK, OK, OK... Let's get back to the most important thing posted in this thread:
WHAM! is having a reunion concert?????
Trevize1138
09-29-2004, 05:32 PM
OK, OK, OK... Let's get back to the most important thing posted in this thread:
WHAM! is having a reunion concert?????
:laugh:
too too funny :)
mtnbykr
09-29-2004, 05:32 PM
Is this supposed to be sarcasm? It is the internet after all, if you don't like my opinion because disagreed with you, I suggest you put me on ignore. I'm not good at figuring sarcasm out from typing, please add a ;), :banana:,:beer_yum: , or :etard:next time...
nope, just didn't/don't want to argue the "i think, he think, she think" bull****t, so i thanked you for expressing your opinion. i don't do the ;), :banana:,:beer_yum: either. but i do know it's the internet....
kl
Damn guys it is what 1:45am, I just finished my movie for this weekend and was freakin out...this thread made me almost piss my pants, Transplant that it the funniest thing I have read in a quite sometime, Great, just great.:D
L8R
Buck
transplant
09-30-2004, 09:29 AM
Damn guys it is what 1:45am, I just finished my movie for this weekend and was freakin out...this thread made me almost piss my pants, Transplant that it the funniest thing I have read in a quite sometime, Great, just great.:D
L8R
Buck
I know it's late and you're tired, but don't go getting all touchy-feely on me. The answer is still "Hell no!" :p
I just finished my movie for this weekend
Sweet, can't wait to see the Lutsen stuff again all cut and put to tunes.
halls
09-30-2004, 12:16 PM
I just got this special edition in the mail. Great to see MORC mentioned twice in the article. :cool:
soupboy
09-30-2004, 03:06 PM
...was it based on the current state of trails or potential? I'll be up at Lutsen again mid-October. I'm not holding my breath for any miraculous changes to their poorly developed trails...but I'm anxious to drink beer.
Others here have mentioned the worthy suspects: LH, BC, Farm I/II, Memorial, etc.
I'd love to see someone take real ownership of the Lutsen trails - they are so half-a$$ed. It's a wonderful canvas that they're fingerpainting with poo.
Glad to see MORC get some props.
Sean
Magic
09-30-2004, 03:45 PM
Hey Sean, what don't you like about the trails at Lutsen? I think the trail system up there is fun to ride. I like the climbing it offers and the downhills are great. In my opinion, we need more stunts out on the trails. Everything from Moose Mtn. over to the DH run and down to the gondolla is fun to ride. Just like to hear what you would change and what you'd like to keep.
soupboy
09-30-2004, 04:18 PM
...I don't dislike it per se. It was in the context of the rankings that I have issues. The only reason I'm going up 10/15 is to get in the last day of runs for the Bull Chair on Moose Mtn.
My point is - they could do so much more. Drops, teeters, rock gardens, berms, etc. It doesn't need to be crazy or death defying but with that much vertical and terrain type they could build some pretty neat stuff w/o much effort.
Sean
Yeah well from what I hear the owners are real a$$ holes...anyway, that place could be as good as or better than Marquette(sp?)...
I have changed my focus to Spirit Mtn. They are located near a large city, they have elevation, and they seem more willing to except and try new sports than Lutsen. I know a ton of DHers that would rather pay to go to Spirit instead of Lutsen...if they would start to develop and run there lifts for DH/FRers use.
L8R
Buck
Agreed, Spirit has a lot of sweet terrain with a TON of potential. I'd be down with driving up there to ride more often if there were lifts so you could get more laps in. Right now you do two or three laps and your done for and its time to go.
Trevize1138
09-30-2004, 05:23 PM
Just get in better shape, fattie.
Agreed, Spirit has a lot of sweet terrain with a TON of potential. I'd be down with driving up there to ride more often if there were lifts so you could get more laps in. Right now you do two or three laps and your done for and its time to go.
mtnbykr
09-30-2004, 05:47 PM
.....DHers that would rather pay to go to Spirit instead of Lutsen...if they would start to develop and run there lifts for DH/FRers use.
Buck
i really doubt you'll see spirit run the lifts for summer use. w/ the budget [or lack of] that the city has right now and knowing what it costs to run lifts in the off season + insurance....
just my .02....
kl
TrailPatrol
09-30-2004, 06:41 PM
I have changed my focus to Spirit Mtn. They are located near a large city. Buck
Spirit is located near a large city? Where? Speaking as a native New Yorker, you can almost fit the entire population of Duluth in Yankee Stadium. Somehow, that doesn't make it as a very large city to me. ;)
That being said, my wife is a Duluth native, and we love the place. But part of the reason we love it is the "small town" feel to it.:)
Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans
Yeah I hear ya on that one Kurt...
But while I was up at the DH race...I heard some rumblings and was pulled a side and talked with some board member for awhile about the possibilities. Don't know where it went from there but...if nothing else they should let people build there, they have roads to shuttle top to bottom...I don't see it happening in the near future but hey you never know...
L8R
Buck
mtnbykr
10-01-2004, 07:28 AM
Yeah I hear ya on that one Kurt...
...if nothing else they should let people build there, they have roads to shuttle top to bottom...Buck
after you go to the morc trail school, approach coggs with your idea to build stunts/fr trails on spirit mtn. i'm 99% sure they'd say go for it. spirit lets coggs do all the mtb trails. and we need someone to start pushing this up here.
do you know corey [army] at the skihut east??
kl
do you know corey [army] at the skihut east??
kl
No, I can't say that I do...I usually ride solo so i don;t know many of the duluth locals...East is the on 4th street correct? But yeah you bet when i get done with the course I'll get ahold of them, I've already hiked alot of spirit, and I know where I can get scrap cedar from a company that makes Log Cabins, they have huge sections that they just give a way!!! That is the best to build with, blends in well with the surroundings, and last a uber long time.
Hey Trail Patrol, well, I'm from a little rural town called Plainview, 3,000 people, to me duluth is big enough!!!Great city though...
L8R
Buck
fasterfoster
10-02-2004, 10:16 PM
I'm just sick of hearing the word "freeride"... ;)
Everyone has to name their own little genre in order to make themselves feel special... "I'm not in a rock band, I'm in a Post-Modern-Noise-Fusion-Jazz-Rock band." Sure you are. :fool:How about "extreme freerider"??? You just don't hear the word extreme enough.
BTW, didn't the lead singer of "Extreme" join another famous Post-Modern-Noise-Fusion-Jazz-Rock band?
Standard
10-02-2004, 11:08 PM
yay for DH! :banana:
http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/129vacation_159.jpg
crashnburn
10-04-2004, 12:03 AM
yay for DH! :banana:
Yay! (and this banana's creepin me out because it's dancing in time to my music):banana: This ain't Lutsen and it ain't me in the picture, but it's is the best trail I've ever ridden.
http://www.mountaincreek.com/images/galleries/2/alpine1_500.jpg
http://www.mountaincreek.com/images/galleries/2/1table_500.jpg
gopherhockey
10-04-2004, 12:25 AM
For all you DH/Freeride types - after seeing this weekends crazyness I'm inclined to set up that Freeride forum you have been asking for... along with perhaps a freeride gallery area for you to post your pics.
Hang in there... it may be coming sooner than later ;)
heck yeah John,
That would be much appreciated!!!
And Crashburn, I'm going to say that is somewhere east coast perhaps??? Or is that actually in MN? If it is in MN, I've never heard of it but, I think those pics look like something I've seen from...Snow Shoe Mtn...doesn't that big table have a couple others around it?
L8R
Buck
crashnburn
10-04-2004, 09:45 AM
Diablo Freeride Park -- Mountain Creek, NJ
I second the Freeride forum idea
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.