Saint?

[noise_is_life]

Anyone riding Shimano Saint?

If so, would you care to post some impressions? I'm mostly interested in the rear der.

I need to do something about my Fully, I am constantly screwing up my rear der., I figure I have 3 options.

1. Stop crashing, running into stuff or any other derallieur unfriendly activity, I don't see this happening any time soom.

2. Convert to SS. I like variety though, so I don't really feel like doing this, I already have a SS hardtail. Also since I would need a dual pivot tensioner which hangs nearly as low as a derallieur I expect I might still have problems.

3. Find a more durable solution, i.e. Shimano Saint.

I know Saint takes the hanger out of the picture, I am also wondering if it rides higher since it is attached to the axle. Also is it compatible with other (XT) shifters.

[berrywise]

Based on the tech seminar I attended last winter I think you really just need to purchase the Saint rear hub and the derailleur and it will work with your regular 9 speed shifters. No hands on knowledge but this is what I recall.



Anyone riding Shimano Saint?

If so, would you care to post some impressions? I'm mostly interested in the rear der.

I need to do something about my Fully, I am constantly screwing up my rear der., I figure I have 3 options.

1. Stop crashing, running into stuff or any other derallieur unfriendly activity, I don't see this happening any time soom.

2. Convert to SS. I like variety though, so I don't really feel like doing this, I already have a SS hardtail. Also since I would need a dual pivot tensioner which hangs nearly as low as a derallieur I expect I might still have problems.

3. Find a more durable solution, i.e. Shimano Saint.

I know Saint takes the hanger out of the picture, I am also wondering if it rides higher since it is attached to the axle. Also is it compatible with other (XT) shifters.

[crashnburn]

berrywise is partially right, I think... The rear hub is splinded for the rear rotor and I don't know if they have mounts for the bolts other rotors would have. I think you'll need to completely outfit the back with Saint, brakes and all to get it to work. I think you also may need the Saint shifter for the rear since it's reversed. I don't remember off hand if it uses that brake/shifter combo that they seem keen on though.

I have a friend who's running all Saint stuff on a SC Heckler, he likes it a lot except it's a pain when his rear tire flats...

[Buck]

hmmm, I don't know the exact pricing of changing all that may cost, but I know that Rohloff makes a internal hub, they rock and require no maintenance. The only reason I haven't gotten on myself is they run about 600-700 bucks, but the prices of all the saint stuff and the fact that you could possibly still break it may make it worth your whiole to go with a Rohloff hub that has 15 gears that you can change whenever you feel. wether you are stopped, moving, climbing, in mud...
good luck with whatever you choose!!!
L8R
Buck

[nigel]

SINGLE SPEED

[Ogre]

The Rohloff is actually a 14 speed. You'll be damn lucky if you can find one for less than $900. Or actually from my experiance unlucky. I have a Rohloff on a Karate Monkey. It's a pain in the ass to install. It occasionally pops out of gear and you cannot under any circumstances shift under load. Perhaps I got a lemon, but it has been by far my worst cycling buy.

I almost face planted myself this weekend trying to hammer up a hill, when it popped out of gear. A couple more of those and I'm gonna ship it back to Germany with some hate mail.

[nigel]

The Rohloff is actually a 14 speed. You'll be damn lucky if you can find one for less than $900. Or actually from my experiance unlucky. I have a Rohloff on a Karate Monkey. It's a pain in the ass to install. It occasionally pops out of gear and you cannot under any circumstances shift under load. Perhaps I got a lemon, but it has been by far my worst cycling buy.

I almost face planted myself this weekend trying to hammer up a hill, when it popped out of gear. A couple more of those and I'm gonna ship it back to Germany with some hate mail.

Ken............yours works great right? All the demos ive tried with them work very well.

[ryno lite]

From all the reviews I've read about Rohloff, they work perfectly. Something must be wrong. I'd contact Rohloff imediately and get it fixed. Something that expensive shouldn't be having those problems.

[FSSS]

4th option?

You can get 3 LX derailleurs for the price of one Saint!

[sensorysonic]

I almost face planted myself this weekend trying to hammer up a hill, when it popped out of gear. A couple more of those and I'm gonna ship it back to Germany with some hate mail.

Sounds like you probably have a cable routing problem or issue. Rohloff totally stands behind their product. You need to talk to them about this problem. Rohloff is one of the good guys. They care about their product and their customers. If it isn't a cable routing issue, then it might be an internal problem. If its internal, you'll have to send it back to Rohloff for a warranty repair, but they will repair it, and they will take care of you. Here's their USA office info= Main Office:
Rohloff USA, Inc.
1327 Richmond Street
El Cerrito, CA 94530
Telephone: 1-(510) 232-4833
Fax: 1-(510) 527-6650
Email: usa@rohloff.de
Web: www.rohloffusa.com

[noise_is_life]

4th option?

You can get 3 LX derailleurs for the price of one Saint!
Actually I've only really trashed one derailleur, I just bend (or break) my hanger frequently, and it is pain to have to constantly be messing with that. Seems like the Saint is better designed to withstand impacts.

[lou1s]

http://www.bikemag.com/freshproduce/shimano_05/

[soupboy]

...I've never seen one man be so hard on derailleur hangers. You have a knack for sticking your mech in the nastiest spots. I don't think I've ever damaged my derailleur or hanger...

The Saint, as others noted, requires a dedicated hub combo. Too expensive and not worth it IMO. Maybe somebody makes a CNC machined hanger for that Jamis that is not so flexy and prone to bending. You may also be running too much chain and that's going to keep your derailleur too close to your chainstay on that the Horst link design - lots of smacking into the chainstay and premature wear and tear.

Start using your brakes, not your rear mech to stop your bike! Kidding...sort of.

Sean

[noise_is_life]

...I've never seen one man be so hard on derailleur hangers. You have a knack for sticking your mech in the nastiest spots. I don't think I've ever damaged my derailleur or hanger...
I know, it's a curse.


The Saint, as others noted, requires a dedicated hub combo. Too expensive and not worth it IMO. Maybe somebody makes a CNC machined hanger for that Jamis that is not so flexy and prone to bending.
Then I would probably just bend my frame.


You may also be running too much chain and that's going to keep your derailleur too close to your chainstay on that the Horst link design - lots of smacking into the chainstay and premature wear and tear.
Hmmm, interesting idea. I know the one time I broke my hanger it was because my chain got hung up on some sticky out bit on my chainstay and ripped the der. right off when I started pedalling.

Maybe I should go 1x8 with a chain guide just to keep my chain from flopping around so much.


Start using your brakes, not your rear mech to stop your bike! Kidding...sort of.

I think the braking is my problem sometimes, "He who hesitates is lost" and all that.

[Ogre]

>Rohloff USA, Inc.


Thanks for the info on Rohloff, guys.

After thinking about it last night, I am suspecting too much slack in the cables.
I'll try to get it fixed before I continue blaming the gearbox.

There isn't a crispness, if that's the correct word as you turn the grip shifter.

[ryno lite]

Yeah, the first thing they say is check the cables on a Rohloff setup and if need be have someone who knows them well take a look see. If all is right with the cables, it could be the gearbox and Rohloff can take care of that. I think the guys at One on One have experience with the speedhub. I'm sure they'd love to help.

[Buck]

Racing and learning to DJ took it's toll on my Der. hangers too, I trashed 4 ders. and like seven or 8 hangers this summer...so I'm lookin at the Rohloff stuff myself that is why I suggested it...I would check out thier website if I were you...it seems like a great product, and since I already have a heavy bike I could careless about the weight penalty of it, and the weight is so close to the center of the bike once you are rolling you should notice less then say a new tire that is heavier but like I said I just want something that will work...I just wish they would get that paddle shifter out sooner...again good luck with whatever you choose...
L8R
Buck

[noise_is_life]

Seems like a lot of compromises for the Rohloff

1. Have to use a grip shifter
2. Need to use a special rotor
3. Still need to tension the chain somehow

And that price tag is a killer.

[sensorysonic]

Seems like a lot of compromises for the Rohlof

Rohloff has a lot less compromises then Shimano constant care components! Shimano constant care components have to be adjusted all the time, always dirty from dust and debris after one ride. Pain in the ass to clean. Chain line compromises in many speeds. Shimano constant care wears out very fast. Drivetrains are shot in 4 months if you are a Clydesdale. Rohloff, on the other hand, always has clean sealed gears, one chain ring and cog to clean, and always a nice clean chainline. Plus, when the drivetrain does wear down, you switch the chain ring and cog around, and reuse it for another season. Talk about grand German engineering. That's something Shimano would never go, because they are all about sales, and making components wear out quickly. :scream:

[soupboy]

...just wish it was cheaper, lighter and simpler - say maybe 7-9 gears. All told, for a FS disc brake application you are looking at $1K+...for your rear wheel and shifter. I don't care who you are...that be steep.

Not sure if you're suggesting Clydes wear out drivelines faster than non-Clydes but Shi+mano and all others traditional mech systems will always be more finicky than the Rohloff.

Keep your chain lubed and reasonably clean and you should be able to get a summer out of your driveline assuming it was set up right to begin with. Poor set ups combined with poor maintenance and use (cross chaining, shifting under load, etc.) will always exacerbate wear.

I suggest running full shifter cable housing whenever possible, especially on FS bikes, to maximize shifting integrity and its lifespan.

Oh, and get SRAM X9 or better mechs with the new matching trigger shifters...

Sean

[sensorysonic]

...just wish it was cheaper, lighter and simpler - say maybe 7-9 gears. All told, for a FS disc brake application you are looking at $1K+...for your rear wheel and shifter. I don't care who you are...that be steep.

I definitely agree, the Rohloff has a very steep price. Also, I'm a poor dude, so I'm very sensitive to price. Sometimes though, even with a steep price, a very steep price, a product such as the Rohloff speedhub is worth its weight. The Rohloff hub never wears out. Its bombproof. The original prototype has over 100,000 miles on it and it's still going. The prevailing joke about the Rohloff Hub: it's so good you may have to provide for it in your will; it will almost certainly out live you!
You are right, there's no reason a rider, even a Clydesdale, shouldn't be able to get a summer of riding out of a Shimano drivetrain. Also, I have been using entry-level Deore Cranks, Deore cassette, and SRAM PC59 chain with good results for a season, but I only get a short season out of each drivetrain, and I watch my chain, and change chains, also clean my drivetrain regularly. I use Deore Cranks instead of LX or XT because the middle and granny ring on a Deore Crank is steel, and lasts longer. I should point out, I've been riding for many years, and I started mountain biking on an old-school 7-speed, top shifter Shimano DX component group. This is when the Shimano DX line was for cross-country riding. I had no problem going 3 seasons on the old 7-speed Shimano DX. Yeah, it was heavier, but it was so much better. No chainsuck, easier to clean and maintain, since the spacing was wider. Old-school 7-speed shimano DX used to go for a long long time. This Shimano 9-speed stuff wears out, and it wears out fast. :cool:

[ryno lite]

I agree, as Shimano has "improved" their components, they just wear out quickly! My first bike had the 21 speed XT stuff and it lasted forever and I commuted everyday on it for years and rode it offroad. I hardly ever cleaned it or lubed it even in winter cause I was always busy with college. Even with all that abuse it lasted forever. The only improvement is weight and in my opinion the lighter weight for the Shimano stuff isn't more important than durability. I'd rather have heavier stuff that works better and is bombproof. Shimano has us all brainwashed that their new stuff is better when in reality it wears out more quickly, thus giving Shimano more chances to sell us more and to fill up the landfills quicker. Just another shortsighted corporate giant. Oh well, sorry to ramble on, just felt like it! Shimano is scared of technology like the Rohloff cause it's built to last and how can you sell things if the parts you make last forever? I will agree though that the price of Rohloff is big on the front end but over the years it will save you money. That said, I'm in the same boat as everyone else not being able to make that initial investment because it is pricey. It's worth it, but hard to afford!

[nigel]

Some Hone pix

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11279

[sensorysonic]

Hone Groupo pic:
http://www.mbaction.com/detail.asp?id=923