Would you pay to ride a freeride area?

[gopherhockey]

See other poll - lets say there was a freeride park around 40 minutes from the metro area. Would you be willing to pay to ride and if so how much should be charged to ride?

Again, this is important data being collected for a possible project.

[nigel]

I went $11-15 just based upon Afton charging $7 and having no stunts there. Since the stunts cost money to build and insurance is a factor ect.. plus the fact that it would have be run as a bussiness with employees and utilities more than likely, there are a lot of factors involved in pricing. I think it may have to start high ($40 or so) and eventually begin to lower over time as things get "paid off" and more and more people begin to use such a place to ride.

D

[bradpartyka]

The price has to be below 10 bucks because more often than not kids would want to use it. Also, there should be a reasonable season pass.

Vending machines would help cut the cost.

[gopherhockey]

I went 6-10 based on the distance factor. If it were more natural freeride stunts (i.e. fast downhills with jumps etc.) I might go more often and pay more. If it is all hand built skinny stuff I'd end up breaking my leg on, maybe they would have to pay me to ride it... ;)

Thanks for the comments - this is going to be valuable info that may lead to something like this happening in the near future.

[JSkater127]

CHallenge park in Joliet charges 7 bucks and that place is Primo! But i would definately pay more, like i said before as long as it was worth it.


james.

[quinnsoccer27]

why do you have to charge a fee it cant be that much for wood and stuff

[bradpartyka]

why do you have to charge a fee it cant be that much for wood and stuff
Land ownership.... cost money.... operation expenses???? Insurance????

[Buck]

yes Joliet is fun and yes they do charge money...BUT here you can find some where with elevation such as Spirit Mtn, which has tons of natural features that you could incorporate as well as man made. While I was up at the Greenman DH there was a lady there named...CJ Bird...that was very excited to see what we were doing with the DH, I would get them involved and I would pay closer to 15 bucks a day to ride some where with elevation, natural and man made stunts on the trails...just my .02 cents...what are the plans, where is the area being suggested???
Thanks
L8R
Buck

[gopherhockey]

Land ownership.... cost money.... operation expenses???? Insurance????And if they don't have a group of great volunteers like MORC has, you have some very expensive build time and maintenance costs. There are no trail fairies. (... see upcoming MORC ad campaign at your LBS hehe)

And actually wood can get kinda spendy as well. The camelback out at Leb, as an example, is appx. $150 of wood alone not counting labor, materials etc. (and its fairly small)

[Buck]

Actually the entire thing at Joliet is built by TEAM SALLY so it is all made with volunteer work, of course since they build, they ride for free...check out teamsally.com. I actually had the peasure of riding with them in Colorado for a week...here is a hickey I got riding at Keystone with the Sallies... (http://www.teamsally.com/galleries/pictures/pic922.jpg) and here is my truck as a shuttle service...here it is... (http://www.teamsally.com/galleries/pictures/pic901.jpg) ...I'm the MN chapter of Team Sally...
L8R
Buck
PS...I understand why you are keeping the area where you are looking at building confidential, but I think it would be easier to answer you polls if you atleast posted up a locale. I live near rochester...would I drive to the cities to ride NS stuff, maybe but probably not a hugely routine basis unless it was unparalled to what I could build on my own...Keep it rockin though I would love to see this get bigger in MN, there is no reason we couldn't have stuff as big as MI...we definitely have the elevation and terrain...

[gopherhockey]

PS...I understand why you are keeping the area where you are looking at building confidential, but I think it would be easier to answer you polls if you atleast posted up a locale.
Understood. I was asked to post these polls by request of Tim Wegner who is doing all the work on this one. I'll let him post the details of where when the time comes.

It probably woudln't be going too far to say you will be pleasantly surprised by the location once its revealed.. but thats all I can let on about until Tim gives the official word. Maybe that will help people with the general direction and they can make a more informed decision without actually being told the exact area...

[Buck]

lol, hmmm, if I would be pleasantly surprised...then I know of two that I would call good spots and I want in on it!!! Put me down as a volunteer, i would be glad to help if I can.
L8R
Buck

[JSkater127]

hey jon, does time need any help? i would definately donate some time.

thanks
james.

[Tim Wegner]

Just for some clarification, the area we are discussing is in Southeast of the Metro. It has some tremendous terrain and contains about 240 acres of land. I asked John to post this poll as an informal process to determine the interest and feasablity of proceeding on this land. The trails would be cross country, freeride and possibly dual slalom. There is a good infrastructure in place for support (building, potential vending, parking etc.)

Dale and I are meeting with the land owner and volunteer group tonight to discuss the plans to proceed or to cancel. They have a good sized organization already but do not think they have a lot of experience building stunts and adding features to the trails. The volunteers would need some support from the metro trail builders to develop the needed expertise.

This group does not lack in desire or numbers or excitement level but like most groups MORC included they do lack funds for projects. One more reason to have a poll like this one. The land owner is not trying to get rich off of this project but would like to recover his investment. If he has to have employees help with the running of this park he would also like to not have to subsidize those expenses.

Other questions (aside from location) please e-mail me directly: twergner50@yahoo.com

Thanks everyone for your discussions. All comments seem to be very positive.

TW

[SickBoy]

Southeast metro? Bah. Not gonna drive 30+ minutes (and pass four or five trails on the way there) to pay to ride.

[bradpartyka]

Just for some clarification, the area we are discussing is in Southeast of the Metro. It has some tremendous terrain and contains about 240 acres of land. I asked John to post this poll as an informal process to determine the interest and feasablity of proceeding on this land. The trails would be cross country, freeride and possibly dual slalom. There is a good infrastructure in place for support (building, potential vending, parking etc.)
Dual Slalom!!!! My interest is soaring now!!! :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

South East sounds just dandy to me!!! :scream:

[cheese4brains]

I'm not freerider, but if I had a single location that included good XC and good freeriding together, there's a chance I might get hooked ;)

As far as fees, I'd most certainly be willing to spend $20/day for a superior riding experience. This includes properly designed and well maintained trails. If a private entity really wants to make a go of it, they should also offer camping, lodging, and other activities so that those of us with families can make a weekend of it.

[bradpartyka]

Whoop De Doos in Minnesota would be so sweet.

http://www.164productions.com/sandhill/nonrace/whoops.jpg

[Buck]

How about some dirt jumps, made specifically for mountain bikers, that would rock...and lots of high super skinny skinnies... :D ...and I would be more than happy to come help with some building on a weekend or two to help get the place rollin...
L8R
Buck

[soupboy]

...maintained. The high skinnies have no appeal to me - too old and my wife and kid would never forgive if I maimed myself taking a header off something like that.

That, and I have the balance of a tapir with an inner ear infection.

Now, MTB sized dirt jumps, fast DH sections, drop offs, DS style course would be awesome.

If in SE Metro it would be a weekend only or hooky-day spot for me.

Sean

[gopherhockey]

Southeast metro? Bah. Not gonna drive 30+ minutes (and pass four or five trails on the way there) to pay to ride.40 minutes outside the metro, but yes thats the general direction.

[manual63]

I am going to compare this to a skatepark. The only difference is this would take up more space. I said $11-$15. That's a little more than most parks, even the Tri-City concrete bowl in Edina ($4 -$8 depending on where you live).

If it were to be successful, it should have things such as a small shop for parts and repairs, food and drinks, and maybe even an area to hang out. More money can be made if it has some additional functions. Think of a ski hill. How many ski hills are there without a place to hangout, eat food, get something to drink, and fix and buy equipment? Not any that I have seen.

Hope something like this goes through....it would be cool and is needed.

[Trevize1138]

Hmm ... sounds like someone needs to make a business proposition to a local ski hill.

What better place for a freeride park? You've already got the places to hang out like Shad suggested, you just need to build the freeride stuff on the hill. Something like this could turn Afton's MTB business right around. Charge 2X more but you get obstacles and freeride stuff you don't get anywhere else, as opposed to their current model of paying $7 for mediocre singletrack that's barely 1/4 as good as the free stuff you get at Lebanon. Nice big hills on which you can build some knarly runs through trees with dropoffs, table tops, doubles ...

Some of the stuff they build for freeriding in summertime could be incorporated into their snowboard park in winter.

[manual63]

...maintained. The high skinnies have no appeal to me - too old and my wife and kid would never forgive if I maimed myself taking a header off something like that.

That, and I have the balance of a tapir with an inner ear infection.

Now, MTB sized dirt jumps, fast DH sections, drop offs, DS style course would be awesome.

If in SE Metro it would be a weekend only or hooky-day spot for me.

Sean
I am not a big fan of the high skinnies either. I don't see the point and if you do make a mistake, which even the good riders do, how do you get out of it or bail?

Some skinnies....yes, but 15 plus foot high ones that are super narrow....not for me. I like to do crazy stuff, but the bail option has to be there.

[Buck]

I never said anything about 15 ft high skinnies, I'm think more around like 8-10 ft, while yes that is high, but if the bridge is 6" wide that is like riding up on a highway divider. But some other cool things would be to have some 15 ft+ hucks built into the trail, but those work best if there is enough elevation to play with...but really any trail that is pointed down is fun if it has flow, no matter what bike it is designed for. To me though NS stuff is cool that is what I like and am good at, doubles and stuff I am new to, so i would love to see a section with just that stuff to, and if the area is big enough why not buid a skills area like whistler??? Another idea for raising money for materials and such, would be to cut some DH lines and host a DH race and charge like a 30 bucks a head knowing that most of the entrance fees go right back into the trails, I would definitely come.
L8R
Buck

[manual63]

I never said anything about 15 ft high skinnies, I'm think more around like 8-10 ft, while yes that is high, but if the bridge is 6" wide that is like riding up on a highway divider. But some other cool things would be to have some 15 ft+ hucks built into the trail, but those work best if there is enough elevation to play with...but really any trail that is pointed down is fun if it has flow, no matter what bike it is designed for. To me though NS stuff is cool that is what I like and am good at, doubles and stuff I am new to, so i would love to see a section with just that stuff to, and if the area is big enough why not buid a skills area like whistler??? Another idea for raising money for materials and such, would be to cut some DH lines and host a DH race and charge like a 30 bucks a head knowing that most of the entrance fees go right back into the trails, I would definitely come.
L8R
Buck
We did get approval to do some cool stuff for the MORC party. Make sure you show up.....I will build some tables and doubles for sure. We are gonna have some sort of fun race that weekend too.

[quinnsoccer27]

will it be very chalaging cause the dubble at leb is suppose to be challaging but is pritty week

[soupboy]

...but so is your spelling.

Then again, maybe I just got trolled.

will it be very chalaging cause the dubble at leb is suppose to be challaging but is pritty week

[Buck]

Hey Shad...
When and where...I've never been to a MORC, event they all seem to be in the metro area...I avoid cities at all costs so I haven't made it to any! But I would like to come and meet ya all!!!
L8R
Buck

[ryno lite]

I'm never going to be a freerider (too chicken and value my life and limbs too much), but I'd pay 6-10 for a good new piece of singletrack. We already pay for 3 Rivers and Elk River and used to when Monti was open, so I'd have no problem paying a little for a set of really good single track on private land. I think it would be a great idea to put all of these styles of riding in one place. Seems to work out west at ski resorts so why not here?

[nigel]

Hmm ... sounds like someone needs to make a business proposition to a local ski hill.

What better place for a freeride park? You've already got the places to hang out like Shad suggested, you just need to build the freeride stuff on the hill. Something like this could turn Afton's MTB business right around. Charge 2X more but you get obstacles and freeride stuff you don't get anywhere else, as opposed to their current model of paying $7 for mediocre singletrack that's barely 1/4 as good as the free stuff you get at Lebanon. Nice big hills on which you can build some knarly runs through trees with dropoffs, table tops, doubles ...

Some of the stuff they build for freeriding in summertime could be incorporated into their snowboard park in winter.

Anyone want to do this with me!! I can have a bussiness plan quick like as soon as i know a location to use! Im sooo sick of working for the man :(

D

[gopherhockey]

Hmm ... sounds like someone needs to make a business proposition to a local ski hill.


Actually part of the reason for this survey is that someone out there is thinking of doing this very thing.

[manual63]

Actually part of the reason for this survey is that someone out there is thinking of doing this very thing.
Your giving away too much info.....now I am pretty sure who it is.

[Trevize1138]

Actually part of the reason for this survey is that someone out there is thinking of doing this very thing.
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreally ... ?

[Buck]

Yeah, I drove up to the cities yesterday to do some street ridin with some guys...on 52 the welch village turn off is about 40 miles from the Metro area, and it is southeast of the cities...hmmm...could this be the location??? I would say they have about 240 acres of land??? If so I would come often that is just over a 45 from I live...if the trails were good of course
L8R
Buck

[FSSS]

The guessing begins...

[fisherbikefreak]

Out of 51 voters so far I am half of those who are not willing to pay a cent to ride a freeride park. It seriously would have to be an awesome place that challenges me to try new things, but also allows me to learn at my own pace in order for me to pay anything to ride it. I could totally get into a freeride park, but biking is already an expensive sport. I can't afford the time to drive to a place where I have to spend money to ride. Who ever is making this place better make it a great destination type business. Places to chill out, camp out and wipe out. A Disneyland for freeriders.

[FSSS]

A Disneyland for freeriders.
We could even add subliminal messages to brainwash our children into becoming MORC members! :crazy:

[iceskier]

My guess is Coffee Mill, Mt. Frontenac, Welch Village, Afton Alps, Mt. LaCrosse, or that little ski area just south/west of Coffee Mill. Am I right?????

[Tim Wegner]

WRONG, WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!!! Our meeting went very well last night. I am waiting to get the final go ahead to reveal the location.

TW

My guess is Coffee Mill, Mt. Frontenac, Welch Village, Afton Alps, Mt. LaCrosse, or that little ski area just south/west of Coffee Mill. Am I right?????

[manual63]

WRONG, WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!!! Our meeting went very well last night. I am waiting to get the final go ahead to reveal the location.

TW
That's very cool. I am another willing participant in the design and dig department. Best of all, I think most of us freeriders would help out for free. Maybe just get some free sessions in return for our work. I helped a skatepark build once and they gave me a free year membership......that was cool of them.

[FSSS]

I think most of us freeriders would help out for free. Maybe just get some free sessions in return for our work. I helped a skatepark build once and they gave me a free year membership......that was cool of them.That would be cool... if you work X number of hours, you will get a free membership. The only problem is that the people that come out to help build it, are probably the people that would ride there the most (and therefore spend the most money per season)!

Maybe a lottery system for trail workers. Or better yet... a discount if you help with building the park, so they will still make some money off you. It would suck to put a bunch of work into a park, then have it close because it can't support itself!

[tnmanderson]

Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.rasc-mn.org/rasc_mtb.html

[EmL34]

Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.rasc-mn.org/rasc_mtb.html
Funny. Tim, do you need to start using an alias?

[FSSS]

If this is the place...

According to msn maps: 75.6 miles from downtown Mpls. Kinda far but I'd still drive to help build and ride it every week or 2.

[iceskier]

Hey that's the one I was talking about that was south and west of Coffee Mill. Cool stuff!!! I hope all goes well!!

[berrywise]

I gotta say this sounds like great stuff. I'm thinking the money definately would be made if the stunts were added. Otherwise you are competing with the likes of a Lutsen where they have more vertical to use. Building stunts and jumps would elevate you above that and open yourselfs to this growing movement of freeriders.

On a side note and I hope Tim that you don't take this personally but I had to laugh at this comment

Both of us are highly qualified designers and have learned that with 2 working on the trail we are nearly twice as productive as one man alone.
Wouldn't one hope that two people would be twice as productive as one person? :D I know what you meant but thought it funny.

Back to your regular schedulated programming.....

[Buck]

Dude that is like 20 minutes from my house, although the skiing there sucks, I always told them they should build some stuff for riding there...they own both sides of the valley, damn if that is the place they have some sweet stuff you could build on, not much for elevation but they have some fun natural stuff too...damn would they be intersted in hiring a summer time trail crew guy??? I would be totally game to help or work for them!!! Hmm, I wish someone would have posted up here about that, I would have come to show support, that and I am the only guy with in 50 miles with a DH bike and some expierence at building and riding fr/dh stuff! Please post up any future meeting dates if you are able to, thanks!!!
L8R
Buck

[Tim Wegner]

Boy it is tough keeping a secret with this group. Yes the location is Steeplechase Ski area. The landowner used to own coffee mill but sold it and bought this land instead and has been busy devloping winter fun stuff.

Henry Walker has been my contact with RASC and they seem to have a very enthusiastic volunteer group. When Dale and I drove to Steeplechase last night it toke us 45 minutes from his office in Farmington. I drove from my house in Apple Valley one other time and the time was almost the same. good roads until the last 2 miles or so that are gravel.

As far as an alias I am going to start using "Luke TrailMaker" as my alias so none of you will be able to figure out the new areas that I am visiting to try to get access for trails in the future.

OK I need to explain why 2 guys are 2X's more productive than one guy when it comes to trail design. One guy has to make all the design decisions, has to do all the instrument readings and has to go back an change all the flagging ribbons when a design change is made. With 2 guys you bounce ideas back and forth as you are working coming up with a better trail design in less time. Also when hiking up and down the hills on this property an old man like myself can get really tired and when tired my productivity drops (must buy moto bike) You also have 2 guys changing ribbons, two guys doing instrument readings and flagging gets done much faster. I know, my original comments should have been followed by a huge "DUUUH." Thanks for everyones interest in this topic, did not mean to keep everyone in the dark as far as the location but was asked not to say anything until the decisions to move forward was made.

TW

[FSSS]

Just wondering...

Since the cat got out of the bag early - has the decision to move forward been made? Or are they still thinking about it?

Thanks for all the info!

[Tim Wegner]

The decision has been made. As soon as Dale and I get a topo map the design process will begin. Would like to get flagging started this fall and finish next spring. Construction to begin as soon as frost leaves the ground in 2005

TW

[FSSS]

Tim,
I've heard people talking about a trail school in the cities in October, but I haven't seen anything on the IMBA website. Do you know anything about it? I'd like to attend if there is one.

[Tim Wegner]

I have a school planned for October. I will be opening registration later this month. There will actually be 2 schools of 2 days each. The first school is about 3/4 filled with DNR, parks managers and other government land managers that are essential to our continued access to new land for trails. The other 2 day school will be open to the general public. Each school will have slots for up to 40 people.

Mark Schmidt and Lora Wolner will be conducting the schools. (they arethe ones that conducted the 10 days of hotspots here last summer) The second school will be held at Afton.

TW

[manual63]

If this all takes off, I really think MORC needs to add a freeride section here in the forums. It would make freeriders feel more welcome. I have seen a few discussions on here where I think freeriders don't feel very welcome. I know I brought this up in the past and was shot down like an Iraqi Mig during Desert Storm, but I think it should be brought up again.

[gopherhockey]

If this all takes off, I really think MORC needs to add a freeride section here in the forums. It would make freeriders feel more welcome. I have seen a few discussions on here where I think freeriders don't feel very welcome. I know I brought this up in the past and was shot down like an Iraqi Mig during Desert Storm, but I think it should be brought up again.
I don't have a real problem with that.. however, we don't really have separate areas for other styles of riding - its kind of open to all types - freeriding, XC etc. If we have one we'd probably have to do them all or people might think we actually lean the other way... ?

[Buck]

Yeah I agree with Shad, a FR forum would be awesome...HOw abouts do we sign up for the trail building classes???

L8R
Buck

[quinnsoccer27]

i have a question for Tim, im shure youv been building trails all your life but how dose one know that you will build sweet trails with good setups for jumps and freeride stunts does anyone else besides you get to have some input on were the trail runs

[thebionicman]

http://www.imba.com/resources/freeriding/index.html

Just take a look at some of the pages on here. This is some of the resources that Tim and Dale use when laying out a trail. If I have any questions on trailbuilding I always refer to the IMBA website. I also have the new Trail Building book (the thick one) and that goes over everything in there to.

[gopherhockey]

i have a question for Tim, im shure youv been building trails all your life but how dose one know that you will build sweet trails with good setups for jumps and freeride stunts does anyone else besides you get to have some input on were the trail runs
I can help answer this one. Tim and Dale are the primary people laying out trails these days. They are well trained and experienced. You won't find anyone outside of maybe IMBA themselves that will do a better job, and even then...

As for obstacles, stunts and such. Often these come after trails have been laid out. Tim, Dale and I often bounce ideas around at least at Lebanon when it comes to these types of features. We even open up for feedback from volunteers that are willing to come out and help.... so those that are concerned about how things end up when it comes to jumps and freeride stuff would easily have a chance to get in on some of the decisions.

For example - Dale helped me build the top part of the camel back, but it was the crew that Tuesday night that put it in place and built the rest of it (including the skinny section). We had the general location and standard of build, but let the crew make it reality.

As Erik stated, the IMBA web site and new trail building book is the best out there for this type of thing. We've even contributed to their resources (IMBA worked with us last year to develop the teeter design - the very one that sits out at Leb!) They lay out proper material use, building things to last and all that kind of good stuff. Its one thing to have something in a good spot, its another to have one built to last and built safe.

We're in good hands with this project to be sure. I'd suggest everyone that is excited about it keep asking questions, but most of all be ready to show up and help once the time comes to start building...

[Buck]

yeah, I'd be glad to help, I love FR and DH stuff and to have somewhere 20 minutes from my house that may let me build some stuff at, totally gets me pumped up!!! Maybe I could even score summer job with Steeple Chase...ooo...wouldn't that be awesome...so if oyu guys keep that stuff posted,m once I'm done with school up in duluth for the year, I will come to all of them I am sure.
L8R
Buck
PS. How about some jumps designed specifically for MTBs??? I'm new to the whole dirt jump thing but I am getting pretty good at it, and I think it would be awesome to have some where to be able to learn and expand.

[Tim Wegner]

Thanks for you response John. No I haven't been building trails ALL my life. It just seems that way!! Actually I started my trail building education about 5 years ago. Dale and I began by getting appointed to the committee that overlooked the writing of the new masterplan for Lebanon Hills.

That part of my education taught me how slowly government moves on any project and it also taught me that in order to be successful working with people that are in charge of public lands you ALWAYS must try to look at it from their viewpoint. They are concerned about $$$$, service to the public, continued labor costs, control of the land they manage, safety, environment, access etc. Approaching it from this position has taught me that if I am to keep our group busy with trail projects I MUST work at least 3 years ahead of when the trail project comes to fruition.

Dale and I have attended at least 8 IMBA trail schools and last year we attended the Western Trail Builder Association meeting in Reno. We have been nominated for membership in this prestigious orgnization and our membership will be voted on in 2005. If anyone thinks the meeting is typical convention think again. We spent 2-3 days out in a windswept COLD park on the outskirts of Reno moving rocks, building cool features and learning how to build excitment into an intermediate trail. Dale and I have been recognized by BIKE Magazine as one of the 12 best trail builders in the United States!

Now does that mean we know everything---of course not. We always take input on trail ideas, features (we call stunts features--it make it more palatable for the land managers) routing etc. from those that show an interest in working with us. However,(you knew this was coming) we will not compromise on the quality of the trail. We will listen to what some one may want but we have the final say on where the trail is routed, how the "feature" is built and other items that will impact the final trail. I think our position on this has resulted in some exceptional trails being built in this area. Yup I do upset some guys on occasion but I refuse to compromise on the quality of the trail that has been designed by us. I will give an example of what we mean.

We were hired to construct a trail in Northern Wisconsin. The trail had been designed by someone else. Once we got on site and reviewed the design we determined that we could not build what had been designed and have a sustainable trail. We spent as much time doing design work as we did doing construction. Since that job we refuse to construct a trail unless it has been deisgned by Dale and I.

I look forward to getting input from others on the design of this next trail and really am pleased to see the excitement level for the opportunity to have some more challenging "features" built at this site than what we are allowed to do on public land.

TW

[manual63]

I don't have a real problem with that.. however, we don't really have separate areas for other styles of riding - its kind of open to all types - freeriding, XC etc. If we have one we'd probably have to do them all or people might think we actually lean the other way... ?
There is a section for road. I know Road riding it quite different than MTB riding, but I would say the differences between Road riding and MTB riding are about the same as the differences of Freeriding and MTB riding.

But how many different types of MTB riding are there? I would say XC and Freeriding. Sure Cyclocross may fit in there somewhere........but it's not like there are tons of different types of riding that are as huge of an off shoot as freeriding.

I guess I look at it this way. It's the next big up and coming thing. If you follow the bicycle industry, you will see that freeriding is the fastest growing segment right now. Freeriding has more of a BMXer/Skateboarder influence to it, so that is kind of why I think it can have it's own section. But, then again.......my opinion is not the only one out there. I am sure riders in other segments of the sport have their own opinions on this too.

I would actually think about starting a Minnesota Freeriders forum, but since we have MORC and it's support, so it seems, I don't see why a whole separate organization would need to be started.

[Buck]

Actually manual63 I've been working on a website i am calling Minnesota Freeriders, I even have a logo all made up that I think is pretty cool...BUt I suck at writing in HTML so I haven;t gotten very far and with school starting I doubt I'll get much more done on it...all the guys I ride with rarely frequent this website, mostly b/c they get the impression that it is mainly XC guys which it seems to be except for the 4-5 guys that are pretty hardcore into the FR/DH...

I guess to me it doesn't make much sense to have XC guys build and design a FR park...Tim, I'm not reffering to you, obviously you have a huge list of accomplishments for trailbuilding that make you qualified above anyone else, but it seems like most XC riders here don't want any of the more advanced things...so what about the 1% that I am in that want hard stuff, that could compare with things in BC, or even team sally stuff??? Is this going to be designed into the trail from the get go??? I'm also curious as to when those trail building classes are, I would really like to attend one myself.

L8R
Buck

[FSSS]

The level of difficulty is up to the land owners, since ultimately they have to deal with the liability issues. How committed are they to expert level features? They can be relatively safe if designed and built correctly.

[manual63]

Actually manual63 I've been working on a website i am calling Minnesota Freeriders, I even have a logo all made up that I think is pretty cool...BUt I suck at writing in HTML so I haven;t gotten very far and with school starting I doubt I'll get much more done on it...
Do you have it hosted anywhere yet? If not, what are your plans? You could easily get someone like me to help with the site design and HTML/JavaScript coding. You will probably want forums on it too. I know how to set all that up....and then some.

I made my entire site on my own....without the use of a WYSIWYG editor.

http://www.freethinkersunite.com

The forums are hosted by xsorbit, which is pretty cheap and easy to set up.

[manual63]

The level of difficulty is up to the land owners, since ultimately they have to deal with the liability issues. How committed are they to expert level features? They can be relatively safe if designed and built correctly.
Bottom line is:

If they want it to succeed, it needs to be good and challenging enough to get people to drive down there and pay for it.

[FSSS]

Bottom line is:

If they want it to succeed, it needs to be good and challenging enough to get people to drive down there and pay for it.
Yup, and to keep people coming back for more! :banana:

But don't scare away newbies!

[Buck]

I'm super pumped b/c I see this as not only a opurtunity to get some good XC/FR/DH stuff near but maybe also job oppurtunity for me, hahaha

L8R
Buck

[FSSS]

Or a volunteer opportunity!

[destrago]

I am a moron- this post has been deleted because of that fact.

-Tony