Riding rock gardens and drop-offs

[Shickdawg]

I hit some of the upper trails at Battle Creek last night, squeezing in a little over a half-hour of riding into a busy day. Anyways, I hit the rock garden, and while I rode through it successfully, I feel like I could have done it better.

Basically, when I ride over these smaller drop-offs (around 3"-6"), I tend to try to stay back on my bike, generally standing on the pedals. I let the front wheel drop, let the front shock soak up the drop, and let the back wheel drop off after that. Depending on how severe the drops are, and how steep the rest of the hill is, I can usually maintain a halfway decent speed through the obstacles. But there's always this vague uneasiness that the rear wheel is barely staying on the ground, and I could find myself going endo at any particular moment.

So is there a better way to ride these-- one that will allow me to ride them both faster and safer?

[Magic]

Try to position your weight back on the bike. Butt slightly over the rear tire. As the drops become more steep the farther back you'll have to be. Try to ride relaxed, not stiff. As your front tire reaches the apex of the drop try to lift the front wheel slightly. Sometimes just dropping over the drop will cause the front wheel to lose momentum, which in turn results into an endo. Also the drop might fall into the hill or drop, this will also cause an endo. Just stay smooth and loose. Good luck.

[TML]

Kit-

It sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on things. Get your weight back and like Troy said stay loose on the bike. Don't exaggerate that too much though, lest you take a saddle thumpin to the chest. On some of the larger drops you may not even want to get back until right at the last second. Your body will actually stay high and lead into the drop. Then right as the front wheel comes to the edge you'll actually pull the bike in front of you and put the front wheel down into the drop. This leaves enough extension in your legs to then absorb the little change in pitch of your saddle and rear of the bike. Kinda tough to explain without seeing. We'll have to hit battle sometime together and toy around in the rock garden.

[Brick]

I tend to try to stay back on my bike, generally standing on the pedals. I let the front wheel drop, let the front shock soak up the drop, and let the back wheel drop off after that.
This is one thing that has given me absolute fits this year in working with front suspension. On my rigid, I could just lean back and drop the front wheel off the obstacle, and then just step myself down all nice and easy like. The bike stays right where I put it.

With the front suspension, when I put the front wheel down, my center of gravity keeps moving as the front shock continues to compress, and then it becomes superman time yet again. I can't seem to get my weight back far enough. :mad:

Needless to say, I'm building a pretty big downhill stigma right now.....

yeah....I know....practice

Mind if I take you up on that "rock garden 101"? I need all the help I can get, it just might have to wait a couple of weeks yet.

e.

[grizzly adam]

Of course be sure not to be applying the front brake. I've found that sometimes I have to release the front brake as the wheel hits the lower ground to keep my momentum going forward and then back on the brakes so I don't get going out of control. As always when riding, look ahead. Look past the drop, where you want the front wheel to go, that may help with balance and weight transfer.
Get out there with someone and try a couple different techniques and watch others. That'll get you a good idea of where you should be.
Oh yeah - be sure you don't get stuck behind your seat - OUCH!

[Brick]

Of course be sure not to be applying the front brake. I've found that sometimes I have to release the front brake as the wheel hits the lower ground to keep my momentum going forward and then back on the brakes so I don't get going out of control. !
....ok....I'm a dummy.....I'm still learning that I need to be a little more judicious in my use of the front brake w. the springy front end(o)

[grizzly adam]

he he - I've ridden a couple manuals on my front wheel - unexpectedly of course - because I had a death grip on the front brake going over a drop. It only took me a couple of heart-stopping moments to realize that I can let go a little bit and still make it.

[manual63]

Downhills are kind of tricky.....especially if they are rocky and/or rooty and uneven. Afton has quite a few of these rocky and rooty downhill sections......with some loose sandy exits even.

There gets to be a point where brakes are the most evil thing during these sections. Problem is, if you don't use the brakes, then you go way too fast to survive!

Solution:

Make sure you are looking ahead and make sure you have good working brakes. Then approach the area at a slower speed because the downhill part will make you accelerate and speed up anyway. Then to maintain a safe slower speed, lean way back and pulse the brakes, both front and rear, but don't lock them for too long. I actually try to watch the trail and time my braking with parts of the trail I know my wheels will have contact. The better modulation your brakes have, disc's are great, the better you can make it so the brakes are working to slow you down, but not locking up or flipping you over. Think anti-lock brakes on a car or pumping you non-anti-lock brakes in the snow when driving.

A few key pointers: Lean way back, don't catch the seat, don't over use the front brakes, and don't use the front brakes at all if you have to turn the front wheel to make a curve in the trail. It takes a lot of practice to modulate the brakes in these sections.......but it is key to your survival. Also, remember to keep loose on the bike and don't get too stiff. It's not a suspension fork issue, actually, the fork should help you maintain traction on a rough surface for longer.

Hope that helps some.

[bkyatty]

anybody have the problem of hitting their pedals against the rocks int he rock gardens at leb? As I tried to pedal through them, the rocks kept hitting my pedals. I recently switched to a pair of BMX Eastern Bike flats (yeah I know, heavy and are not as cool as ATAC) which have made the problem a little worse than before. Should I just have more momentum before I hit the garden so I don't have to pedal. Since going with the flats my knees and ankles and feet feel 10% better after a ride.

[manual63]

I hit some of the upper trails at Battle Creek last night, squeezing in a little over a half-hour of riding into a busy day. Anyways, I hit the rock garden, and while I rode through it successfully, I feel like I could have done it better.

Basically, when I ride over these smaller drop-offs (around 3"-6"), I tend to try to stay back on my bike, generally standing on the pedals. I let the front wheel drop, let the front shock soak up the drop, and let the back wheel drop off after that. Depending on how severe the drops are, and how steep the rest of the hill is, I can usually maintain a halfway decent speed through the obstacles. But there's always this vague uneasiness that the rear wheel is barely staying on the ground, and I could find myself going endo at any particular moment.

So is there a better way to ride these-- one that will allow me to ride them both faster and safer?
If you feel like you going to flip over, you either have the brake on or are allowing yourself to lean forward too soon. Stay over the rear tire until you have landed both wheels, hopefully rear first. The bigger the drop, the more vertical your bike should be and the more you want to land on the rear wheel and absorb most of the drop with your legs. On really big drops, you should pull the bars into your chest and push your legs straight out to get the bike as vertical as you can. Then you have a lot of room to compress the landing. Go here and watch some of the videos http://www.biketrials.com/. Sure it's extreme, but you will get the point on how much you can get away with......without suspension even.

[manual63]

anybody have the problem of hitting their pedals against the rocks int he rock gardens at leb? As I tried to pedal through them, the rocks kept hitting my pedals. I recently switched to a pair of BMX Eastern Bike flats (yeah I know, heavy and are not as cool as ATAC) which have made the problem a little worse than before. Should I just have more momentum before I hit the garden so I don't have to pedal. Since going with the flats my knees and ankles and feet feel 10% better after a ride.
Make sure you have enough speed going into the rock garden. Then you need to just watch the trail ahead and time your pedal strokes so you are not in a down pedal when a rock is there. I still hit sometimes, but it's always because I am not paying attention to the trail enough.

As far as pedals go, we are only talking a few millimeters of difference. It's more your pedal timing than it is your pedal size.

[Trevize1138]

anybody have the problem of hitting their pedals against the rocks int he rock gardens at leb? As I tried to pedal through them, the rocks kept hitting my pedals. I recently switched to a pair of BMX Eastern Bike flats (yeah I know, heavy and are not as cool as ATAC) which have made the problem a little worse than before. Should I just have more momentum before I hit the garden so I don't have to pedal. Since going with the flats my knees and ankles and feet feel 10% better after a ride.
Along with Shad's tips about speed and pedal timing, don't be afraid to downshift more than normal through these sections. Sometimes granny gear even can be called for, even if you're not climbing much at all. What a lower gear gives you is more pedal position choices, so you can better pick-and-choose where you want your pedals and when you've got power.

One of the challenges with riding single speed through rock gardens, for me, is the lack of a lower gear for easier pedal timing and positioning.

In lieu of downshifting on my single, I'll instead opt for speed. The faster you approach something the less you have to pedal through it, so you can just keep your pedals level and that'll avoid any chance of hitting them on rocks or logs.

[destrago]

Along with Shad's tips about speed and pedal timing, don't be afraid to downshift more than normal through these sections. Sometimes granny gear even can be called for, even if you're not climbing much at all. What a lower gear gives you is more pedal position choices, so you can better pick-and-choose where you want your pedals and when you've got power.

Someone else gave me the same advice for rock gardens - since then I've been downshifting well beyond where I initially thought I needed to be and it's worked way better for me every time. In addition to being able to move and haveing many different pedal positions, you also have an easier time going slowly and under control because if you end up front end against a rock you can avoid stalling- you can still power over rocks without thrashing you knees. Unless you are like Shad, in which case you just sit in the stall, hop your bike until you are no longer obstructed by the rock, and continue on normally. :)

[manual63]

Unless you are like Shad, in which case you just sit in the stall, hop your bike until you are no longer obstructed by the rock, and continue on normally. :)
:laugh::laugh:

I have a little different technique, not to say using a super low gear is not a bad one. I like to be in a medium gear because I want to be able to tick tack...I don't know what to call it....the pedals with some power. What I mean is that I won't do a full revolution of my cranks. I will have them level and tap forward about an 1/8th to a 1/4th of a turn, then back pedal to do it all over again if needed. If I am at a higher speed, I need to be in a higher gear so I can catch the prongs on the freewheel. If I am in too low of a gear, I can't back pedal and forward pedal fast enough to keep up with the freewheel prongs.

If I am at a slower speed, I want to be in a gear that is just right so I can tick tack if I need to. I guess since I can stop, sit, and hop my way out of most situations, this works for me......:).

[Brick]

I like to be in a medium gear because I want to be able to tick tack...I don't know what to call it....the pedals with some power.
I've heard it referred to as "racheting"....

[manual63]

I've heard it referred to as "racheting"....
I guess that sounds like a good name.

This is a very good skill to have. When your forward foot is slightly above level, about 15% or so from flat, you have a ton of power. Practice snaping forward when your feet are in this position. You should be able to pop a wheelie without even doing a full crank. I probably do about a 1/4 to 3/8 crank before I back pedal to do it again. You can also do short quick jabs by just backpedaling a couple of clicks then snaping forward.

This little skill can get you out of a lot of situations.......especially Rock Gardens if your pedals are gonna hit some rocks.

[Trevize1138]

I ended up using this system (ratcheting or tick-tacking, whatever you want to call it) last night at Leb on my single going through one of the XX loop rock gardens. Works pretty well! I didn't intend to do it, but it just seemed the natural response to the situation.

[grizzly adam]

OR just go really fast before the rock garden and strategically place your feet off the pedals and to the side! Hold them there and steer your way through the rock garden. That way, if any rocks hit your pedals, they'll just spin freely. :D

[manual63]

OR just go really fast before the rock garden and strategically place your feet off the pedals and to the side! Hold them there and steer your way through the rock garden. That way, if any rocks hit your pedals, they'll just spin freely. :D
I suggest wearing shin pads while doing this.....:fool:

[grizzly adam]

I suggest wearing shin pads while doing this.....:fool:
True - but after you've mastered the technique, you'll find that you can just put your feet up on the bars for a much more aerodynamic position. :cool:

[pwpatton]

Yea, I call this ratcheting too. I find I can usually make it through the rock garden by just timing it (no ratcheting) but sometimes when I look ahead I see that I'm going to bash my foot on a rock so I ratchet back to time it so that I won't... works perfect!

I ended up using this system (ratcheting or tick-tacking, whatever you want to call it) last night at Leb on my single going through one of the XX loop rock gardens. Works pretty well! I didn't intend to do it, but it just seemed the natural response to the situation.

[GoatGirl]

My old friend Brian D used to say, "just look for the biggest nastiest rock, use it for a jump and clear the whole thing". :etard:

[manual63]

My old friend Brian D used to say, "just look for the biggest nastiest rock, use it for a jump and clear the whole thing". :etard:
This may seem funny, but sometimes I go for the big rock in some rock gardens. You know why? Because the builders usually put a bunch of small rocks in one area and a big one in another without much around it. If you take the big rock, you sometimes can avoid having to weave, smash, and thunk your way through a bunch of smaller staggered ones.

Now that I said this, John and Co will go put a bunch of smaller rocks around the bigger ones at Leb........:)

[bigwheel]

This may seem funny, but sometimes I go for the big rock in some rock gardens. You know why? Because the builders usually put a bunch of small rocks in one area and a big one in another without much around it. If you take the big rock, you sometimes can avoid having to weave, smash, and thunk your way through a bunch of smaller staggered ones.

Now that I said this, John and Co will go put a bunch of smaller rocks around the bigger ones at Leb........:)
Well, it was fun while it lasted. I discovered the "Lundell secret" about 2 months ago, but kept it to myself. Go for the first big rock, and everything else flows nicely.

Now that you have gone and spilled the beans to everyone, I can guess what we'll be doing for the next several tuesday nights.:evil:

[jitterjepp]

I just go right at them and dont think too much about what I'm doing. When I do that I slow down and then I have to navigate. I told my buddy one day at Lebanon (who always got stopped at the rock garden) to just hammer through and don't think about it. He did that and got right through it no problem for the first time.

[SPR]

Has anyone done the rock garden down on the river trails? When the rocks were first put down it was rideable. Now after years of flooding it's become more of a challenge with it's water crossings and assorted obstacles.