Trail Conditions in Detail - Theodore Wirth

[Aaroneous]

It's WET, baby! :banana:

[manual63]

Chris D's by phone trail report....:)

The surface is wet and has a slick top. There are some muddy spots in the usual areas. The synopsis is that the trails will be good and tacky by mid day tomorrow (Thursday). So please take care of the trails by not riding them today. This rain was badly needed and the trails will be so much more fun to ride when it sinks in. So expect some good tacky riding tomorrow. Yeah, lean those corners!!

[Chug]

Regardless, we are going to take a chance and check them out, at our usual 7:30 ride time. If they are wet we will not ride. Either way I will post conditions afterwards if no one beats me to it.

[manual63]

Regardless, we are going to take a chance and check them out, at our usual 7:30 ride time. If they are wet we will not ride. Either way I will post conditions afterwards if no one beats me to it.
We did an assessment of the trails and ask that everyone stay off of the trails until mid day tomorrow....please. They will not be ready to ride tonight. Some MOCA members will be out there tonight and we will see who is riding the trails.

Thank you!

[steef]

Some MOCA members will be out there tonight and we will see who is riding the trails.

Thank you!

Trail work tonight?

[manual63]

Trail work tonight?
We don't plan on having trial work tonight. We will hopefully have some for next Wednesday. We will send out email and post when we have trailwork.

Thank you for your interest in helping.

[steef]

Cool. I saw someone had flagged some of the corners that looked to be in need of some work when I was out there Monday.

[[defective]]

Thank you!

You're welcome!

[Wheels]

Trails are damp, but rideable. Enjoy.

[stoneage]

Wirth was very rideable at 4 yesterday. The few puddles that are there are just maintenance problems and flat trail.

[2_whl_boost]

Theo was in great shape today!! Thank you rain!!:)

[soupboy]

Anybody check it out yet Sun AM?

[jag]

I was out of there by 930 am. It's a little slippery around the corners and on the rocks. a few small puddles. It was good at slower speed. But it will dry fast. Go ride it but watch the corners and rocks.

[soupboy]

Yep, thanks. Just got back. There were only a few small puddles perfect for riding through. It was already tacky enough to keep my Stan's Crow from sliding out.

[DaHowie]

Does anyone know the the rainstorm on 8/10 from 6 PM to 7 PM hit TW?

[stoneage]

Does anyone know the the rainstorm on 8/10 from 6 PM to 7 PM hit TW?
It was powdery last night.

[flombe]

1/2" at my house. It should be in good shape!

[manual63]

Looking for trail conditions report after yesterdays rain. Anyone have any data?...:)

[flombe]

1" of rain at my house. My guess is that there will be some soft spots.

[manual63]

1" of rain at my house. My guess is that there will be some soft spots.

Anyone have any more details than this?? Anyone??? Bueller....Bueller......

[r32657]

trail was fine, no standing water at all on the trail. One small tree is down, so you will maybe be able to duck under it.

[thebionicman]

trail was fine, no standing water at all on the trail. One small tree is down, so you will maybe be able to duck under it.

What he said, except the tree has been taken care of. Quite a nice teamwork effort to get rid of it tonight!!!

[stoneage]

It looks like someone took the skill out of a corner in the NW part of Whitetail. There used to be a tight right with a tree and then a couple of rocks that you had to weave around. I used to start thinking about how I was going to maneuver through it after I jumped the log just down the trail from it. It was one of the harder corners to figure out. It's kind of like when someone kept taking rocks out of the trail because they didn't have the skill to ride around them. I guess with that many people riding Wirth, it's going to get easier and easier as people design their own route. :confused:

[high life]

It looks like someone took the skill out of a corner in the NW part of Whitetail. There used to be a tight right with a tree and then a couple of rocks that you had to weave around. I used to start thinking about how I was going to maneuver through it after I jumped the log just down the trail from it. It was one of the harder corners to figure out. It's kind of like when someone kept taking rocks out of the trail because they didn't have the skill to ride around them. I guess with that many people riding Wirth, it's going to get easier and easier as people design their own route. :confused:

Are the rocks gone now? If it is the corner I'm thinking of there were two rocks , one right in front of the other, just past a sharp turn with a tree on the left side. I found the line through those two rocks. Front tire goes around them to the right, rear tire remains on the left side. It's a bummer when people mess with obstacles that are in place to improve ALL of OUR riding skills, not to metion, retain the integrity of the trail.:fool:

[stoneage]

That's the one. I have been trying different lines, but I'm small enough to stay to the left. Or, I was till the obstacles disappeared.:mad: :mad:

[col200]

being 6'2" I ALWAYS scraped my back (well...camelbak) on that tree going under it. But yeah, it was always a tricky spot and I didn't mind it.

[2_whl_boost]

any word on conditions today?

[2BOutside]

trail was borderline tonight at 7pm - there were some of us out riding, but there were a few spots which were too wet on the main loop.

should be tacky enought by tomorrow afternoon, as long as we don't get more rain tonite.


If you do ride earlier, please make sure you take it slower than normal b/c of some of the slick/mud spots to prevent trail damage!

[JLS]

For you whiners out there - and you know who you are - the rock garden at the 55 entrance has been eliminated :scream:

[syntaxjunkie]

For you whiners out there - and you know who you are - the rock garden at the 55 entrance has been eliminated :scream:

Huh? Not the one on the downhill...

[stoneage]

the rock garden
You have to be kidding!! I have never seen a posting about this being a big problem.:confused:

[99FSRComp]

For you whiners out there - and you know who you are - the rock garden at the 55 entrance has been eliminated :scream:

Do you mean the rock garden that was at the south end of Skyline, just before you exit the south loop?

Mike

[JLS]

I knew someone would take the bait if I laid it out there.... Well maybe it wasn't a rock garden - the stones garden was eliminated. You guys are too easy...............

[99FSRComp]

I knew someone would take the bait if I laid it out there.... Well maybe it wasn't a rock garden - the stones garden was eliminated. You guys are too easy...............

Oh, the "gravely road". Good riddance.

Mike

[stoneage]

Oh, the "gravely road". Good riddance.

Mike
Yeah, thank Allah.

[2BOutside]

raining right now... definitely going to be too wet on the large north loop till at least late Friday/Saturday, judging by what it was like yesterday.

[manual63]

The trail was wet Wednesday when we did trail work. People were riding it and I saw a lot of mud on tires. It has rained fairly steady since, so please give the trail a day to dry off. I would say maybe mid day Saturday.

Please post here if you see the condition of the trail. A simple rule to follow. If you tires are collecting dirt or mud, it's too wet to ride.

[stoneage]

The trail was wet Wednesday when we did trail work. People were riding it and I saw a lot of mud on tires. It has rained fairly steady since, so please give the trail a day to dry off. I would say maybe mid day Saturday.

Please post here if you see the condition of the trail. A simple rule to follow. If you tires are collecting dirt or mud, it's too wet to ride.
Where was it wet on Wednesday evening? I rode the whole trail 4 times and the only place it was damp was the stupid little puddles in the Skyline loop, where the trail wasn't built correctly. Someone had gone through earlier with a wide knobby tire and left tracks, but my tires weren't leaving a trace.

[manual63]

Where was it wet on Wednesday evening? I rode the whole trail 4 times and the only place it was damp was the stupid little puddles in the Skyline loop, where the trail wasn't built correctly. Someone had gone through earlier with a wide knobby tire and left tracks, but my tires weren't leaving a trace.

There were tire tread marks all over the place. All the riders we saw had mud imbedded in their tires. Your idea of a dry trail is a bit interesting Bill. But I am not going to get into it with you here.

[JackieTreehorn]

I was hoping the trail would be rideable today and in the name of hope I rode the top part of the skyline loop but found it to be quite damp. My (slick) tires were picking up goo so I rode out at 55 and continued down around Cedar lake. Perhaps if this sun keeps up it will be rideable by this afternoon.

[stoneage]

The exit section of the Skyline trail was an old established trail that the city wouldn't let MOCA re-design to make it sustainable. I know that they are aware of the situation. If you waited for that to dry completely there wouldn't be much riding at Wirth in a normal year. I can't think of any reason not to ride the trail if those small puddle areas are the only damp part. You could always dismount and run the small bad sections and say you were preparing for cyclocross.

[JackieTreehorn]

I COULD do that, but I'm not going to. We may be talking about two different sections of trail but the section I call skyline goes from up by that par 3 putting green to down by the 55 kiosk. And this morning around 11:30, that section was much damper than usual. I was sliding all over the place. It could be that that section is not representative of the rest of Wirth but since that is the begining part of my ride I use that to make my judgement. That may keep me from riding single track sometime, but I don't mind substituting urban trails upon occasion.

[stoneage]

the section I call skyline goes from up by that par 3 putting green to down by the 55 kiosk
Yeah, that's the section. There are always small puddles there. I don't even ride that section. It's just flat and muddy. If you ride down the asphalt and go in the bail out exit a few feet you can tie into the qualifier and then the three berm exit. The entrance up and around to the putting green is usually OK, and the maintenance has been pretty good on the North loop.

[99FSRComp]

The exit section of the Skyline trail was an old established trail that the city wouldn't let MOCA re-design to make it sustainable.

I never understood why this section of the trail was actually worked on, but is not nearly to the standard of the loop north of the railroad tracks. Throwing class 5 gravel into the low areas isn't a correct fix. This area probably shouldn't even be sanctioned MORC trail until it's brought up to IMBA standards. Someone should just walk through parts of both the north and south loops with a Parks official a few hours after a rain and show them the difference.

Mike

[JackieTreehorn]

Call me silly and inexperienced, but I enjoy the south loop and the work that has been done on it. But it is great to know even if skyline is wet, the rest of Wirth may not be. Thanks for the info!

[stoneage]

I never understood why this section of the trail was actually worked on, but is not nearly to the standard of the loop north of the railroad tracks. Throwing class 5 gravel into the low areas isn't a correct fix. This area probably shouldn't even be sanctioned MORC trail until it's brought up to IMBA standards. Someone should just walk through parts of both the north and south loops with a Parks official a few hours after a rain and show them the difference.

Mike

Call me silly and inexperienced, but I enjoy the south loop and the work that has been done on it. But it is great to know even if skyline is wet, the rest of Wirth may not be. Thanks for the info!
The MOCA guys can give you a better explanation of the problem.

[jitterjepp]

I never understood why this section of the trail was actually worked on, but is not nearly to the standard of the loop north of the railroad tracks.
Are there any trail work hours behind this voice?

[99FSRComp]

Are there any trail work hours behind this voice?

Yes. I regrettably have only a few hours of trailwork in, in the north loop, so I have not worked on any of the south loop.

Mike

[jitterjepp]

Yes. I regrettably have only a few hours of trailwork in, in the north loop, so I have not worked on any of the south loop.

MikeJust checking. Lots of folks complain and never help or voice their opinions when its too late.

[mara]

The "skyline" section of trail was put/left in the one and only place the City of Minneapolis would allow us to put trail. While we probably could have built a better, more sustainable trail in a different spot, the MPRB is our land manager and what they want is what we will do. We have had discussions about rerouting the trail or putting in a section of boardwalk, but at this time those are only ideas that the MPRB is taking under consideration.

Please be patient. Just as MOCA is new to politics, the MPRB is new to mountain biking. We're all learning together. Even if the route we take is a bit bumpy at times, we will still end up with great trails.

[flombe]

I got one quick lap in last night before losing the last bits of daylight. Trail was in great shape! The usual soft spots were damp, but not muddy. Go ride!

[ebrandel]

Hit the trail this morning and did a couple of laps. If anyone saw a guy with a gray and orange jersey riding a black Stumpjumper (and pausing to fiddle with my front wheel) that was me.

Trail was in great shape and I had an absolute blast. Only issue I encountered was a small dead tree that had fallen across the trail (moved that out of the way) and what is in the attached picture. Now, it was only my third time there, but I thought there wasn't a way around those rocks. Didn't move the logs back because I wasn't positive either way.

[mara]

Now, it was only my third time there, but I thought there wasn't a way around those rocks. Didn't move the logs back because I wasn't positive either way.

AAAAAAAARGH! Bleeping cheaters! If anyone out riding is so inclined, please put the logs back to make going over the rocks the only option.

This is one of my biggest frustrations -- I think it is great that people try to ride trail that may be too difficult for them, but I do not understand why they need to destroy the trail we have built rather than walking over a difficult obstacle.

[steef]

Trailworkers move the logs back by the rocks... other people move them away... I think it needs more rocks.

[manual63]

To all who bypass the tough sections and make thier own reroutes!

WIMPS!!!

Ride it....or at least try....sheeeesh. How are you going to become a better mountain biker if you don't at least try to ride them? I don't get it.

[flombe]

If I recall correctly, wouldn't the "new" alternate line require a very slow turn around a tree on the right to avoid riding the rocks?

There could be a message here. The trail is multi-use and if someone wants to ride through the woods but not over rocks, maybe there is a need for these alternate lines. There are plenty of riders out there who do not have the skill/courage to ride even the smallest obstacle. I know my kids would not ride the rocks the first few times through. This would require stopping and potentially creating a hazard for others.

No, it was not me that moved the logs!:D

[mara]

I could understand an optional line if walking the obstacle would be dangerous, like the bridge ride-arounds in the xx at Leb. However, these are a couple of rocks that even a child would have no problem stepping over. Remember, this is intermediate level trail. All are welcome, but all are not welcome to change the trail to suit themselves.

[Nickel]

This would require stopping and potentially creating a hazard for others.

No, it was not me that moved the logs!:D


I stop all the time on a trail but I always make sure to look that someone isn't breathing down my neck. You really shouldn't be following someone so closely that if they stopped suddenly it would cause harm to you.

[manual63]

The people I have seen try to ride or walk to the right of the tree are plenty capable of riding or trying to ride the rocks. They are for sure capable of walking the rocks. All they are doing is trying to pick the shortest line between 2 points. What I don't get is that when we block the passage, why do they move the stuff and continue to do what we don't want them to do? It takes 2 extra seconds to walk the rocks rather than go to the right of the tree!!

So I propose we just rock to the right of the tree and make it super nasty. That way, the left will be the easier way by far.....:)

[flombe]

One lap tonight. Conditions are supreme. Go ride!

[nigel]

Anyone been out yet? Hows the trail looking? Looking to ride at 6 hope its "maybe" ready but not thinking so :(

[syntaxjunkie]

Being in Minneapolis now, and having just driven here from Fargo, from whence our current weather most likely comes, I can tell you that things don't look good, and are not going to be looking good any time soon. Just another holiday weekend in the land of 10,000 wet blankets.

[mtnbykr]

Just another holiday weekend in the land of 10,000 wet blankets.

sun's out up here. no rain since ?? got close to 80. the riding rocked...

ps. and if you look--http://tinyurl.com/p4x3p your weather is coming from wi/iowa. don't send it this way...

[BikerKitty]

Hmm. It's been sunny all day here in Bismarck. If this is headed your way, tomorrow should be fantastic in Mpls.

:)

[Standard]

Anyone checked out Wirth yet today?

[MickUZE]

I road the trial last night and it was in great great shape! Nice and tacky!
Just about perfect so ride ride ride!
uze

[flombe]

Excellent conditions tonight. Approximately 40 other riders thought so too right around 7 PM-ish. There could have been more. Riders everywhere. Little to no congestion. Cool to see that Theo is attracting so many riders! Go ride.

[jag]

Yeh, we had a group of 5 out there. It was a good time out there with all those riders. i think i caused my group to have a little pile up crash with some freewheel guys when i took a sharp left into the future. sorry about that.

[BKocka]

super wet today, just giving you a heads up. it doesnt seem like it would be bad to ride because its just barley drizzling, but puddles are forming.

too bad i had to drive all the way to mpls. to find out i cant ride today. eff.

[manual63]

super wet today, just giving you a heads up. it doesnt seem like it would be bad to ride because its just barley drizzling, but puddles are forming.

Not sure if the trials will dry out in time for Monday night ride. Anyone have a trail report??

[Trevize1138]

Not sure if the trials will dry out in time for Monday night ride. Anyone have a trail report??

I'll go check it out over lunch for y'all =)

[Trevize1138]

Hey, whattya know, I made it out to Theo to walk it a little over noon and get an idea of conditions!

I'm going to call it just a hair too wet, I'm afraid. I'm itching to ride it, but a full day of no rain would mean it'll dry out just enough to be absolutely perfect tomorrow. So, save up for that!

[Trevize1138]

Ok, I lied! I'm at the trail now and just did two laps (posting via Blackberry. I'm so cool). Despite my fears, the trail is in *perfect* condition! Go ride!

[trompete]

Good riding today...only a few small puddles. The rest was plenty dry (~2 PM).

[Matt W.]

Anyone been out today? Dry enough to ride?

[Matt W.]

Just got back from Theo. Both loops had spots that still needed to dry out, particularly the North loop. Personally thought it was too wet too wet to ride additional laps so I left. Hoping the current forecast is wrong.

[stoneage]

The only problems were a few low spots and the fast rail corners that have built up berms dure to lack of maintenance. I drained the bad ones. Super tacky. The south loop had the usual puddles due to flat terrain. There were some tracks from a couple of riders who must have been out early this morning.

[nord0306]

The trail is too wet to ride today, the forcast shows for more rain all day and it doesn't sound like it dried out yesterday either. Please stay off for now.
thanks

[rfd425]

Is Theo likely to be rideable tonight?

[rideharder]

rideable right now, the south loop have the usual puddles but the north loop is tacky and fast. i just got back about an hour a go.

[stefan]

Sweet. About time this rain subsided, now I can give my new helmet cam rig a shot!

[Chug]

Rode at about 1pm, 1 spot of santorum, otherwise tacky and fast.

[nord0306]

Trail is dry enough to ride. Please use caution on the second jump in the Conundrum, there is a large hole on the backside. We have covered it with a tree to help, so don't move the obstacles, please ride around.
thanks

[Nickel]

I think someone moved a rock to make a ride through spot...I'm not exactly sure where it is at, but I remember there being these pointy rocks all lined up exactly in a row and there was a spot to go through them.

[mara]

I think someone moved a rock to make a ride through spot...I'm not exactly sure where it is at, but I remember there being these pointy rocks all lined up exactly in a row and there was a spot to go through them.

You are correct. People keep wanting to rearrange the trail to meet their riding abilities. The rock will be back, bigger and badder, as soon as we get our rock delivery, um, delivered. We will continue to Lundellize any spots where people try to remove features. :D

[rideharder]

the rocks were moved yesterday morning as well, i found them just down the trail and out them back but i guess who ever is doing it is out regularly. i also noticed that the trails, especially the corners are starting to get really wide.

[mara]

the rocks were moved yesterday morning as well, i found them just down the trail and out them back but i guess who ever is doing it is out regularly. i also noticed that the trails, especially the corners are starting to get really wide.

We are on the verge of receiving a shipment of larger rocks. While they won't completely solve either problem, they will make it a lot harder for the anti-trail fairies to interfere and will help keep people on the trail in some of those problem areas. Theo doesn't have quite enough underbrush in places to prevent people from straying off course.

Time permitting, we will be strategizing on Wednesday about how best to skinny up the trail in those spots. Your input would be most welcome.

[stoneage]

This trail is getting easier and easier to ride. Because it is so swervy, the lines are getting wider. I say place rocks in all kinds of weird places to make sure people are alert and make this trail a bit harder to negotiate. It is supposed to be an off road trail. I don't think the intention was to eventually pave it over. The only thing you have to think about now is the rock uphill and the skinny, and they aren't much.

[rfd425]

You are correct. People keep wanting to rearrange the trail to meet their riding abilities. The rock will be back, bigger and badder, as soon as we get our rock delivery, um, delivered. We will continue to Lundellize any spots where people try to remove features. :DAny possibility that sometimes the rocks just come loose and get knocked out of the way by bikes? When I rode the trail yesterday evening, I noticed the spot that I think is being referred to, and the missing rock was just a foot or so away, and it looked like it could have just come loose. Those particular rocks are pretty small, and it's hard to believe, out of all the features on the trail, that is the one somebody would have picked to mess with.

I figure conservatively, there might be 500 laps ridden per week of the north loop at Theo (50 riders per day, average of 1.5 laps per rider; no idea if these estimates are close), and that's a lot of hits to those rocks. Also, I'm sure a few people were out there when it was too wet last week, and that might have loosened up some of the rocks.

[mn_ultra_guy]

I figure conservatively, there might be 500 laps ridden per week of the north loop at Theo (50 riders per day, average of 1.5 laps per rider; no idea if these estimates are close)
Just curious how one does 1.5 laps? Would that not end you in the middle of the lap?
I agree about the possibility of someone dislodging the rocks, as I have seen some smaller rocks move when riders in front of me ride over them.

[Shorty]

Just curious how one does 1.5 laps? Would that not end you in the middle of the lap?

Average.

Example... half the people do one lap, the other half do 2.

[steef]

This trail is getting easier and easier to ride. Because it is so swervy, the lines are getting wider. I say place rocks in all kinds of weird places to make sure people are alert and make this trail a bit harder to negotiate. It is supposed to be an off road trail. I don't think the intention was to eventually pave it over. The only thing you have to think about now is the rock uphill and the skinny, and they aren't much. I thought it was supposed to be a velodrome. ;) I rode half a lap iafter sundown with no lights. That was kind of tricky.

[mara]

Any possibility that sometimes the rocks just come loose and get knocked out of the way by bikes?

There is quite a good possibility that some of the rocks get moved by normal wear and tear on the trail. It happens and we plan for maintenence to fix and replace those rocks as necessary. The ones that irritate me, however, are the ones where we *know* that someone is intentionally moving rocks to change the flow or make a section easier.

[mara]

This trail is getting easier and easier to ride. Because it is so swervy, the lines are getting wider. I say place rocks in all kinds of weird places to make sure people are alert and make this trail a bit harder to negotiate.

The rock shortage of this year is really making itself known in just the way you describe. However, we will be getting a shipment in shortly and I'll do you proud, Bill. After all, I was taught by the best ;)

[rideharder]

there needs to be an emergency trail fix, yesterday on my ride i just about ate it when i came up to the last jump on the north loop (about 100m from the end). someone had dug huge hole out of the landing and then someone decided to place a stump and rock just over the crest so you can see it on approch. im not sure if the rock and stump were a warning but i cant figure out why that person didnt just push the dirt back in. let me know if anyone wants to fix it, i will be at wirth friday (dont know the time yet) for a loppet trail meeting in you need help or want me to fix it.

[mara]

It will be fixed tonight. The stump and rock actually cover up a sinkhole at least as deep as my knee -- it couldn't be fixed without a shovel and a whole lot of dirt.

[Kosk]

So there's trail work tonight?

[rideharder]

thanks, i didnt stop to check them out so it is good to know that i would have rather hit a stump that fall in a sink hole.:D

[mara]

The sinkhole is fixed for the time being and the table is back to its original shape.

As a reminder, if mud sticks to your tires or if you can look back and see the line you've ridden, it is too wet to ride. Thank you to everyone who prioritizes the health of the trail over the need to ride now.

[SprocketHead]

The sinkhole is fixed for the time being and the table is back to its original shape.

As a reminder, if mud sticks to your tires or if you can look back and see the line you've ridden, it is too wet to ride. Thank you to everyone who prioritizes the health of the trail over the need to ride now.

You're the greatest!.... Do you live in the woods there?

...Does anyone know if it's rideable today??

[Sevadari]

How about today? Anyone out at Wirth today to check out the conditions? If possible, I'd like to get out for an early ride tomorrow morning.

I live further out northwest and we got a very light bit of rain today but not much to speak about (even though it looked threatening all day). I realize that you might have had enough rain to shut down the trail, and if so it might sound like there's an obvious answer that I might not be aware of. Just want to make sure I don't have to travel the distance to find a wet trail.

TIA!

[krazykatie]

I rode this evening...most of the trail was great but there were a few slick corners. I'm not sure how much more rain they received after i left though.

[Sevadari]

I rode this evening...most of the trail was great but there were a few slick corners. I'm not sure how much more rain they received after i left though.

Thank you kindly! Glad to hear it was rideable.

I'll just have to keep an ear open for rain tonight and then take my chances going out there in the morning.

(...and pray for no rain of course!)

[soupboy]

Trail was freakin gorgeous this afternoon. Probably the nicest day for a ride this season (at least to me).

With the utmost humility, I must say I dominated the track today. I've never seen so many surprised faces when the Hard Breathing Fat Dad passed them!:jumpy: It's the shoes Money.

[JackieTreehorn]

I went out last evening around 5:30 -6 and rode the entire complex once. The trails were perfect. The sun was shineing down through gold and green leaves with dang near perfect light. The effect was hallucinatory and revelatory. Unfortunately, I was sucking air. But my slow pace allowed me to enjoy the trail more. At least that is what I tell myself. Thanks so much to the trail workers who do so much to make riding Theo a positive experience.

[BKocka]

rode theo last night for the first time. trail was in good condition, no wet spots, and lots of people out riding.

[stoneage]

first time
You had never been there before? Wirth is becoming a 'womens group ride' destination by my observation. It is not intimidating technically, and is very accessible.

[syntaxjunkie]

speaking of which, brianna, are you going to start pulling together that women's ride at the summit you were talking about?

[JackieTreehorn]

So I rode Theo yesterday and today and had ignominous wipe outs both times. I think I just wasn't concentrating on the trail (I have probably ridden theo upwards of 50 times, so I have it down) and made some stupid mistakes. So this afternoon, I had just crossed the long, concrete obstacle toward the end of the north loop and was going around a sharp banked turn when I hit a stump on the outside of the trail. How I ended up there, I'll never know. But it tacoed my rim, and send my forward of the handle bars. I came down with my leg btwn my front wheel and the frame, I think. And my other leg was somewhere else. It hurt. I had to limp out of there. And now I am icing my knee and telling my wife I don't need urgent care. But the trails were great. Lots of color and slippery leaves. They were dry too.

[chewie_52]

Anyone been out there today yet? I really want to get out for a ride today and hoping the weather cooperates enough so that I can get out there and get at least one loop in...sucks that I work until 6 now so by the time I get out there it's about 6:30 and I don't have any lights...anyhoo if anyone's in the area please post up some conditions! Thanks!!

[JackieTreehorn]

It has been pretty dry here since yesterday, so I imagine the trail is still dry and leafy. And tons of fun.

[MickUZE]

I Rode last night and its is a very fast and very dry! Watch out for the leaves they get slippery at times!
GET OUT AND RIDE!

uze

[mara]

! Watch out for the leaves they get slippery at times!

Enjoy them while they last. The second annual Theo Raking Party will be on Sunday, October 29 at ten. BYOR, of course. We'll be racing snow and Mother Nature to get the trail primed for another quick dry-out next spring.

[BKocka]

You had never been there before? Wirth is becoming a 'womens group ride' destination by my observation. It is not intimidating technically, and is very accessible.

yea it was my first time. no offense to anyone (shad, mara...) but I dont plan on riding there again anytime soon. However i only did the smaller loop- so I guess I can't have my mind totally made up untill I do the whole trail.;)

[BKocka]

speaking of which, brianna, are you going to start pulling together that women's ride at the summit you were talking about?

and charles, untill today i was under the impression that you were going to take care of that. but, doesn't matter anymore, since I posted up about it. There was a lack of communication or something.

now back to trail conditions....

[BikerKitty]

yea it was my first time. no offense to anyone (shad, mara...) but I dont plan on riding there again anytime soon. However i only did the smaller loop- so I guess I can't have my mind totally made up untill I do the whole trail.;)

You totally have to ride the entire trail before you say you don't plan on riding there again. It's awesome! :) I usually do the small loop once, then head up to the big loop and do that like 3-4 times.

Theo is my favorite trail in the Twin Cities. I like Leb, too, but I can get to Theo from either work or home in 20 minutes or less. On my bike. I like not having to use gas.

[BKocka]

for sure. I do plan on riding the entire trail before the snow flies. I will have an official opinion formed after that.

[flombe]

Rode 5 laps with DisNjointedflatlander on Saturday afternoon. Perfect fall riding conditions! A few leaf-slicked corners, otherwise tread is like concrete. Very dry. Very fast. Go ride!

[stoneage]

Rode 25 laps of Wirth as part of the Theo25 put on by 'The Kid' from Q. 4 finishers including Seve, Kid, Baba and EZ 1 Speed. 3 rigid singles and 1 geared Mariachi. 2 29'rs and 2 MTB. 68.5 miles. 8 hours. Pretty tough!! This made it well worth it:

[manual63]

I would assume the trails are pretty wet today. If anyone has an update from the trail itself, please post up. Thank you.

[steef]

The service rode was very muddy. Didn't check the trail itself. I think it's safe to say "Stay Off".

[flombe]

Rode 25 laps of Wirth as part of the Theo25 put on by 'The Kid' from Q. 4 finishers including Seve, Kid, Baba and EZ 1 Speed. 3 rigid singles and 1 geared Mariachi. 2 29'rs and 2 MTB. 68.5 miles. 8 hours. Pretty tough!! This made it well worth it:

Nice! When were you out there? How many starters?

And, is that a cake or a patch?

[stoneage]

is that a cake or a patch?
That is a patch. 'Kid' Reimer is the guy that started the MNSCS in the mid 90's. He also puts on ss events from time to time.
When were you out there?
All $@*&%)$ day!!!!

[Nickel]

Any chance Theo would be rideable in the morning?

[rfd425]

Any chance Theo would be rideable in the morning?...or tonight?

[steef]

Very good conditions today. There's enough riders that a lot of the leaves are getting kicked off to the sides.

[col200]

It's great out there! Yeah, the leaves are thinning a bit. Some of the corners can still be tricky. Makes drifting fun though:banana:

[flombe]

Whoa! Excellent conditions. I saw my first and second live O'Possums since I was a kid on the trail tonight! They do not move very fast so be on the look out. I hear they stink if you squash 'em.

[homebrewbiker]

I thought people might be out riding, so I got a bit of an early start. I noticed what sounded like trees being chopped apart, and possibly trees being dragged around in the woods. At first I thought it was renegade trail work, which seemed awfully odd. As I went around the berm after the concrete skinny I noted that the sound was quite near. I stopped at the top of the hill, and saw 2 fairly large bucks fighting right in the middle of the trail! I guess the sounds like someone chopping apart trees was the sound of their racks crashing against each other. At that point, not wanting to be mistaken for competition, I rode back on the same trail I had come in on. and exited at the sleep center and biked around on the paved path.

Not exactly the kind of wildlife people usually associate with Wirth Park ;)

Oh, and, as expected, the drizzle had absolutely no impact on the trail, it was dry as a bone!

[RedSquirrel]

Oh, and, as expected, the drizzle had absolutely no impact on the trail, it was dry as a bone!

Agree. It was dry as a bone at wirth city freeway tonight. Cement like and still white. Way way closer to dry than tacky.... Only the rocks & roots we're dark/damp, but no mud, anywhere.

Wildlife, freak'n right. I parked at the VFW at 6:20pm, did a hot lap and then went back to the lake lot by 7pm. Nobody. Anyway, near the end of the hwy 55 south loop after rock step up I came head-on with a buck (no not that buck). Lots of points on the rack jutt 20ft ahead. I belted a super loud sick howl and luckily the beast ran off. It happened again on my second lap, I saw a few big game just off the trail in the woods. Only 8 pts or so this time. I howled, they looked at me like, wtf. Scary. I saw a black crawly salamander thing on the trail which reminded me of the black x-files slime stuff. I also chased a fat bunny down the trail tonight.

[MickUZE]

WOW!! Great ride last night could believe the weather! Its was one of the best night fall rides that I have had! The trail is in great shape dry with a few tacky corners to grip on and the leaves are not in the way at all.
I can't believe I was the only one out there at night well between 5:30 -7:00! Just a killer time!
Didn't see any deer but I hear a few racks crashing into each other!
Get out and ride!

PEACE
uze

[flombe]

Perfection tonight. Go ride!

[nord0306]

The leaves are clear! The trail is dry and fast. We were out today and got a couple little things fixed up.
Adam

[Uncle Leo]

Just rode a few laps over lunch.
The trail is like butta!
Watch out, the squirrels are getting fat and slow.

[stoneage]

Just rode a few laps over lunch.
The trail is like butta!
Watch out, the squirrels are getting fat and slow.
Ran one down yesterday afternoon. It's an awful sound when they scream.
RRREEEEEEEAAAAATTTTTTTTTTT!!!! Looked OK running up the tree.
Almost kicked someone's ass. I asked him nicely to leash his dog, who was running all over the woods, and he yelled at me to "get &#)*!^". I turned around and confronted him, and he ran backwards yelling, "No physical confrontation, no physical confrontation." I had to laugh out loud. What a jerk. He did leash his mutt. I wonder if we ran off the wrong crowd at Theo.:confused:

[jitterjepp]

Just rode a few laps over lunch.
The trail is like butta!
Watch out, the squirrels are getting fat and slow.I know those things are really slow now. Really fat this year too. I don't think I've ever seen them this fat. I was riding the other day and I thought one would zip out of the way like they usually do but as I got closer I realized it couldn't hardly move because it was so fat so I had to slam on the brakes. They must be getting ready for some serious snow and cold or something. Maybe they know something? I know someone who may be able to talk squirrel. Maybe she can find out if they know anything...let the rest of us know...you know, how its all going to go down.

[nord0306]

I know someone who may be able to talk squirrel. Maybe she can find out if they know anything...let the rest of us know...you know, how its all going to go down.

If you see mara, let me know, I've been looking everywhere...

[soupboy]

Sounds to me like the same crowd, he was just insisting on pitching. :banana:

...and he yelled at me to "get &#)*!^"...I wonder if we ran off the wrong crowd at Theo.:confused:

[Gus]

Rode today over lunch...I know it rained yesterday but with how cold it is I had to see and is very dry only 3-4 very small spots that would be water in the summer but due to the cold are ice. Only rode the first part around the animal shelter but all is dry and rideable.

[Chug]

Rode last night, trail is hard, dry and fast (no I am not hitting on you), a few ice patches that took out riding partners. Gives ya something to laugh at.

[FormerFarmKing]

The trail was great and deserted on Saturday afternoon. Rock hard and NO ice.

[[defective]]

The trail was great and deserted on Saturday afternoon...

Whaddaya mean 'deserted'? I was out Saturday afternoon, as was stoneage's annual TTT&TTTTTaTTT&TTTTaTT race (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19521). How could you have missed the screaming throngs? There was full thronging going down.

[FormerFarmKing]

We didn't see or hear anyone.

[Aaroneous]

Anyone check it out today?

If I don't hear back in... five minutes, I'm going anyhow. :D

[NewTicker]

Aaron, how's the trail?

[steef]

I think your orange fencing post should have gone here.

[NewTicker]

Should've, but I wanted attention. It's all about ME!

[Kosk]

I was asked by the trail steward and dirt bosses to let everyone know that barring a drastic change in the weather (steady sub-freezing temps) to avoid riding. Its very tempting with the nice weather, unfortunately, even though it is December, we are experiencing the exact same weather that produces the "spring thaw" conditions we usually see in April. This is when (and is now) the trails are most suseptable to damage.

This afternoon the trails had thawed too much. Mud was sticking to tires, and rutting was occuring. Please, stop riding until it freezes hard (low twenties for a good stretch). It may take a day or so of cold temps to get the ground to refreeze as the lack of snow and tree cover allows the ground to absorb sunlight and thaw quicker, even when the temp is just below the freezing point.

A good measuring stick is to check the access road on the ride in to the north loop. If the ground is FROZEN SOLID it's probably OK to ride. If the road is at all soft, then turn around and go home. Try to keep riding to the AM hours when the temp is still below freezing (if it even gets that cold) too.

Think snow and cold people.

[goatgirl]

Theo was perfect this afternoon we did three laps and never saw a bit of mud. We did not ride the southern sections, but the northern loop was perfect. I hope everyone was as lucky as we were! While we were out the crew was there doing some work on a new/old section. I will look forward to seeing what they do, thanks for all your hard work.

[stoneage]

Saw Goat Girl and a few of her posse, plus about 15-20 other riders out today. The trail crew at Theo must have done a great job late yesterday or early this morning , as the carnage of yesterdays mud fest was nowhere to be seen. It must have taken a huge effort to return the trail to it's pristine state.;) ;) ;) Wonderful smooth trails and no trace of damage. Rocketed around on the cross bike with perfect traction for a couple of laps. The only messy section was just after the tabletop in the South section, where it looks like there has been an attempt to armor the trail and has caused the immediate area to get very mucky and messy. It was never been in that bad of shape as long as I have ridden the trail. ????

[gopherhockey]

The trail crew at Theo must have done a great job late yesterday or early this morning , as the carnage of yesterdays mud fest was nowhere to be seen.

Its nice to hear Theo doesn't have the cupping problems that Leb has. Tire tracks often appear to be gone and the ground appears to be dry, but the damage is often still there even though it appears to many that the trail self-healed.

[stoneage]

Its nice to hear Theo doesn't have the cupping problems that Leb has. Tire tracks often appear to be gone and the ground appears to be dry, but the damage is often still there even though it appears to many that the trail self-healed.
Theo has great soil. I don't know of another park that heals, as you say, as well. It helps that there isn't much elevation, I imagine. The only cupping is in the South loop section that the city wouldn't allow to be rebuilt.

[Shorty]

The trail crew at Theo must have done a great job late yesterday or early this morning , as the carnage of yesterdays mud fest was nowhere to be seen. It must have taken a huge effort to return the trail to it's pristine state.

Way to support the trailworkers. :eyeroll:

Still bitter they booted you out of MOCA?

Freeze/thaw periods are tricky times, and I support MOCA's decision to be cautious.

[stoneage]

Way to support the trailworkers.
I always support the trail workers. They are the best, or I wouldn't have been out there with them for 3 years, two days a week. I hear you have been doing a good job at MH. We need stewards who are there full time. Good job; I can't wait to ride it.

Still bitter they booted you out of MOCA?
Not at all. I wasn't booted out though, I left, similar to you.;)

Freeze/thaw periods are tricky times, and I support MOCA's decision to be cautious.
I'm well aware of that. I question bad decisions that obviously weren't well researched. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the North loop Saturday when I rode it. No one should quit riding because the sun caused the road to be mucky.

[tedsti]

So your idea of supporting the trail workers is giving them more work to do? Your idea is telling everybody to go out and hit all the trails? Trails that have been closed by the trail stewards or that the trail stewards have requested people stay off? This is wonderful, the land managers will look at us as a community and see that we cannot keep our riders off of closed trails because some of us encourage riding them. Having the land managers take away our trails would be a great Xmas present for all our hard working trail workers. I am sure they are feeling your love and support.

I always support the trail workers.

[gopherhockey]

I'm well aware of that. I question bad decisions that obviously weren't well researched. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the North loop Saturday when I rode it. No one should quit riding because the sun caused the road to be mucky.

The one comment I would have here before I suggest we un hijack this thread is that we should all support the decisions of those who have been put in charge of our trails. (Trail Stewards / Dirt Bosses) It is not up to us to selfishly disregard their decisions even if we feel conditions are "ok" or "good enough".

Not to pick Bill directly, but its a common theme among mountain bikers that really upsets me.... this selfish "I know best" mentality.

We need to work together as a group. I don't know what happened at Theo over the weekend, but the situation at Leb was embarassing and really made us look all like a bunch of idiots to the land manager. Dakota County appreciates MORCs work, but they know all too well that there are a lot of mountain bikers who will just do what they want regardless of signs etc. (even MORC members) They are losing faith in our ability to control the riders, and thats not going to end well if it continues. Lets not fool ourselves, the land managers care about whats happening out on the trail as much as we do. It would be a lot easier for us all to just allow permanent trail closures during the "off season".

I suggest if someone doesn't agree with the decisions of those who MORC & the Land Manager has put in charge that they bring it to the group and not just decide that they know best and do your own thing. Thats simply irresponsible and selfish.

Ok, sorry for the rant... back to trail conditions. If we want to discuss this further perhaps we can start a new thread.

[mara]

The trail was nicely frozen yesterday morning, but there were ruts caused by riding when the ground was thawing that will need fixing next spring. Thanks to everyone who didn't ride during the warmest part of Saturday. MOCA and the trail appreciate it.

Please stay off the trail until the ground has a chance to freeze.

[nord0306]

I suggest if someone doesn't agree with the decisions of those who MORC & the Land Manager has put in charge that they bring it to the group and not just decide that they know best and do your own thing. Thats simply irresponsible and selfish.

By this I think John means that you should contact the Trail Steward/MORC or Land Manager directly and ask them to re-evaluate the decision that has been made, not just post up on the forums your opinion as fact!

The dirt road is a very good sign of the trail conditions. When we got there at 10am on Sat it was still frozen and so was the trail, but by 1pm the dirt road was a muddy mess and the bikes that we saw riding by us on the trail were also splattered in mud.

Adam

[stoneage]

So your idea of supporting the trail workers is giving them more work to do?
I didn't give them any work. I didn't damage anything.
I did not intend to thumb my nose at anyone. When I rode the trail I entered from the North side and it was in great shape, and when I saw the condition of the South loop I bailed and rode the parkway trails to Cedar and back. I finished the North loop on my way back and saw nothing that would lead me to believe that riding would damage the trail. Someone said 'Hi' to me as I started the North loop, and and I said 'hi' back. If in fact the trail had been determined to be fragile, why wasn't something said then? I finished the loop and, I repeat, saw NOTHING wrong with the trail. The road was a mud bath, with plenty of tire tracks through it. I have learned from riding Theo for 14 years that you can't determine the condition of the trail by the sun lit, cupped road. I was going by my best judgement, having no other judgement to go by. If other people rode later and damaged the trail, I'm sorry. I should have put a couple of winks in my first post. I'll do that now.:)

BTW, here is the first notice of possible trail closing. 4:05 on Saturday, 20 minutes before the sun went down:
I was asked by the trail steward and dirt bosses to let everyone know that barring a drastic change in the weather (steady sub-freezing temps) to avoid riding. Its very tempting with the nice weather, unfortunately, even though it is December, we are experiencing the exact same weather that produces the "spring thaw" conditions we usually see in April. This is when (and is now) the trails are most suseptable to damage.
This afternoon the trails had thawed too much. Mud was sticking to tires, and rutting was occuring. Please, stop riding until it freezes hard (low twenties for a good stretch). It may take a day or so of cold temps to get the ground to refreeze as the lack of snow and tree cover allows the ground to absorb sunlight and thaw quicker, even when the temp is just below the freezing point.
A good measuring stick is to check the access road on the ride in to the north loop. If the ground is FROZEN SOLID it's probably OK to ride. If the road is at all soft, then turn around and go home. Try to keep riding to the AM hours when the temp is still below freezing (if it even gets that cold) too.

[Kosk]

Regardless of anyones observations, correct or in error, years of experience or not, the powers that be made a request. Your post in another thread, made at 5:56pm, after my original post at 4:05;

It was just fine, GO RIDE!!!

along with comments made in this thread WERE in flagrant disregard of their wishes. In my opinion its just plain disrespectful.

Edit your post, the quote tag is missing.

[mara]

Regardless of anyones observations, correct or in error, years of experience or not, the powers that be made a request.

We did. I did, using my best judgement after seeing the trail, people's tires, and the general state of muddiness.

I appreciate you posting up when I couldn't and I'm sorry you got crap for it.

Please direct any and all crap at me -- I'd be happy to discuss why I made the call I did with any of you.

[ryno lite]

Please direct any and all crap at me.


Alright! Now we can all bother Mara as much as we want!

[stoneage]

Regardless of anyones observations, correct or in error, years of experience or not, the powers that be made a request. Your post in another thread, made at 5:56pm, after my original post at 4:05
I believe I was posting to a comment by Shad, and well after I had left the trail. I never saw the aforementioned post until yesterday. As a matter of fact, at 6 it was probably rideable again, as it was the following day. With respect, perfect conditions in my opinion. I realize that the trail might have been vulnerable, and I'm guessing here, between about 2:30 and 6. I am also assuming that is when most of the riders showed up and put the trail at risk. Maybe some sort of notification sytem is necessary, like spinning red lights, but if the trail is in good condition and it is a nice day, I'm going to ride; and if it isn't, I won't. I've never abused a trail and I'm not going to start now.

[mara]

Alright! Now we can all bother Mara as much as we want!

Never fear, Ryan, you've always bothered me ;) Well played!

[99FSRComp]

Maybe some sort of notification sytem is necessary,

Couldn't the changeable OPEN/CLOSED part to the signs with the aerial photo of the trail be used, I assume, as originally intended? These signs are located at all the major entrances. It would take someone to go there and flip the signs, but it seems like a few of the same MORC members are there nearly every day. That way the message of a trail closure would get to riders who do not access this forum, which I would speculate is a large percentage of the riders at Theo. Just my 2 cents.

Mike

[goatgirl]

wow! it is great to read the passions here. I am glad that so many people are aware of the need to protect our trails. I will be sad when there are no comments on this page... ;)

[sensorysonic]

I think Surly needs to develop a special levitation off-road bike that levitates inches above the trail during freeze/thaw conditions! The Surly Levitator Bike with Freeze/thaw sensors, powered by solar panels on the backs of riders! Yes, the Surly Levitator Bike in Liquid Grey and Cash Black! Everything is so easily solved in my parallel universe world!!:D

[bigwheel]

I am just going to fill the Pugsley tires with Helium. Of course, I'll have to tie it to a tree during stops.

[jkalla]

Everything is so easily solved in my parallel universe world!!:D

Why doesn't your parallel universe just have trails that never need maintenance - of course some people think that's how this universe is.

[sensorysonic]

Why doesn't your parallel universe just have trails that never need maintenance - of course some people think that's how this universe is.
Because it's more fun to ride a Surly Levitator Bike in my parallel universe! Perfect trails during freeze/thaw conditions wouldn't require a Surly Levitator bike, now would they!!;)

[Chug]

So, not trying to get in a match with anyone or anything like that.
All I want to know is if it is OK to ride the trails well after dark when the temps have been down for a while. I understand that if they are closed they are closed, never hurts to ask.

[mara]

I would only ride when I am sure the ground is frozen. On a beautiful sunny day like today, we'll get some thaw mud that will take a good while to freeze back up, even after the temperature dips back below freezing.

Officially, the trails are "closed" until we get consistent below freezing temperatures. Beyond that, if the ground is frozen and/or if your tires are not picking up any dirt or mud usually means it is okay to ride.

Thanks for being considerate. Asking is always a good thing.

[Chug]

So.... it's down to one of two things.
Getting all dressed up and possibly getting my heart broken
or
lifting liquid weights for some bicep training.....hmmmmmmm.........
I am going to have to think about this......

[steef]

or...

Bring the liquid weights to Theo in case the heart gets broken. :D

[Chug]

It looks like the temps just sat right above freezing all night, glad i didn't go.

[steef]

They're just barely below now . We'll see what happens with the rain and sleet and snow.

[[defective]]

I gambled on a trip out to Theo about 3:00 this afternoon to check out conditions, and it paid off with a few laps.

Dry. Solid. Not even tacky.

[stoneage]

There were a few riders out today. Grab your 3M 8710.

[Wheels]

Enough already - please return to our regularly scheduled programming - Trail Conditions Today....

Currently Open, don't ride in the thaw hours when it's warm out like last weekend, use your best judgement, and remember - you are all an example for everyone else who sees you on the trail or reads your words on these forums.

[Wheels]

Closed until further notice.

[Chug]

....... Why does the sign at Theo say OPEN. Does not make sense to me. I mean no disrespect or anything but if the Trail is supposed to be closed shouldn't this be posted.....at the trail? If someone who is not privy to these forums was to go to the trail, say yesterday (as a customer of mine did), and the sign says OPEN....... what do you all think most folks are going to do?? It seems to me that with the amount of arguing that goes on here that all the bases should be covered by now.
I am bringing this up because these trails are an assest to the community and I too would like to see them around for years, but if some one is going to say the trails are CLOSED it requires more work than just saying (here) that they are closed.
All I am trying to do is bring up a valid point.

[nord0306]

Technically the sign says open when dry, which would include frozen, but not a thawed muddy mess. We are working on getting the signs changed when they should be.

This past weekend and or week probably allowed a few hours of safe riding each day (at night or early morning), but if you ride and break through a frozen puddle it makes a big mess, so since we know the ground isn't throughly frozen, we just say it's closed.

Adam

[Shorty]

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/531/Theo_Sign.jpg

[Chug]

Yeah, all I am going by is what my customer said. and I qoute "the sign said OPEN so I rode". He did mention that he only did one lap and realized that he shouldn't be there. By the looks of that picture of the sign the part that says "when dry" is pretty small. In my opinion if you want the trail CLOSED it should be stated so at the trail, not just here. Hopefully (and I am sure some one is working on it) we can get better signs at the trails soon.

[bigwheel]

I guess I have to agree with Chug. I realize that the sign says "Open When Dry", so technically it is closed. To me, this seems to mean "use your best judgement". However, when a trail is closed for a fairly long period of time, it would be worthwhile to put up an unambiguous sign, like the one on the whorehouse door: "Closed - Beat It!"

[nord0306]

Nobody is denying that the sign should say closed at this time, I just can't change it right now. I am working on it though.

we had to use the positive OPEN language because of the park board. We wanted it to be more negative, like CLOSED when wet. I'm not sure about the size of the letters, but as far as I know, that's how the board or at least our contact wanted it.

Adam

[gopherhockey]

Its a good discussion... but lets remember that we live in an area where orange fences across the trail with clear "CLOSED" signs still confuses some riders... :p :mad:

[Chug]

So.... why cant the sign be changed to CLOSED when it is closed and OPEN when it is open? Seems fairly easy to me but maybe I am missing something. Please, fill me in. Is this a money issue, a park board issue, or...???

[mcarples]

So.... why cant the sign be changed to CLOSED when it is closed and OPEN when it is open? Seems fairly easy to me but maybe I am missing something. Please, fill me in. Is this a money issue, a park board issue, or...???
Well since you have suggested the idea many many times.....why don't you be the one to do it everyday. While it is easy to change a sign, it does require a perosn to be at the trails everyday to check on conditions nad then flip all the signs. Not so easy when YOU have to do it yourself.

[stoneage]

Not so easy when YOU have to do it yourself.
It wasn't that hard.
Hi Matt. Hope CO is treating you well. In defense of Chuck, he has a business to run and was trying to help a customer with trail conditions and had a valid point. Read down the posts a bit.

[col200]

Well, the other side of that panel says "Trails are CLOSED when wet" so I wonder if it might be better if that panel is just flipped during this time of year no matter what (wait..what time of year is it? Spring? Fall?) and left that way until 'actual' spring arrives. Cause it's just not logical for someone to go down daily to check the trail and flip the sign.

[nord0306]

It wasn't that hard.

I'm assuming you changed it, thank you, I appreciate it!

Adam

[stoneage]

I'm assuming you changed it, thank you, I appreciate it!
Adam
I used to, but I forgot the combination. It's been awhile.:)

[Chug]

I would be willing to have a Day or Two that I could change the sign, but like Bill said, with a business to run and a little one running around I cannot do it everyday. I am pretty sure there are enough people in close proximity to Theo that we could figure out a schedule. I am 8min by bike to the Trail head and I know of a few that are even closer.
My biggest concern here was Long periods of closure, like we are having now.

[Shorty]

Are orange fences being used?

From what I have heard MORC is working to get more consistency between the different trails... orange fence means major closure.

Chuck-

Often land managers don't want to micromanage a trail like that... unless there is a major closure they will leave it up to MORC, these forums, and on-site educational signage (open when dry, don't ride on wet trails, etc.).

Did you tell him about the forums - they're a great resource for your customers to check on trail conditions. It sounds like he figured it out on his own, buy you could've discussed how to tell if a trail is too wet to ride (the tread is soft/muddy, you are leaving tracks, tell him about the freeze/thaw this time of year, it often takes 8-24 hours to dry after a rain, trails dry slower when it is cool and cloudy, etc.).

[mcarples]

I would be willing to have a Day or Two that I could change the sign, but like Bill said, with a business to run and a little one running around I cannot do it everyday. I am pretty sure there are enough people in close proximity to Theo that we could figure out a schedule. I am 8min by bike to the Trail head and I know of a few that are even closer.
My biggest concern here was Long periods of closure, like we are having now.
now theres a good suggestion...my bad if I sounded a little malicious.

[Chug]

I think maybe we are all a little on edge right now also. We spend time getting our winter rigs all ready and then we get the shaft. THen you have the folks that see an open sign and go anyway. I realize that there are still going to be numbskulls that will ride no matter what but there are those that will take a CLOSED/OPEN sigh literally. I also realize that changing the sign daily is tough, but it seems that it usually closed for multiple days at at a time. I can usually tell if the trails are dry before even leaving my back yard, by checking the ground in certain areas that do not dry out very fast, and I would be more than happy to pop down there a few evenings (evenings are better for me) and change the sign if need be. Assign a few people and the park board doesn't need to know a thing.

[soupboy]

So, is Theo rideable and open?

[Shorty]

Assign a few people and the park board doesn't need to know a thing.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way the signs get changed is if the OK has been given by the MPRB, right?.

I'd be surprised if the MPRB gave anyone else the authority to close down trails that they own and manage.

[Wheels]

We're authorized to close the trails whenever we see fit, which means we can flip the sign and post the trails as closed on the forums. By the way, the wording on the sign is how the MPRB wanted it (we proposed something a bit different at the time).

It's worked fine up until now, but I'm sure we could revisit how we're doing things with the MPRB if we feel we have a better solution and proof that existing signs are not doing the job.

If it comes to orange fences, then yes - we have to coordinate with the MPRB ... and once they are up - they stay up until we open in the spring.

[mn_ultra_guy]

I live close to Theo and could also help with changing the signs.
Devin
I can usually tell if the trails are dry before even leaving my back yard, by checking the ground in certain areas that do not dry out very fast, and I would be more than happy to pop down there a few evenings (evenings are better for me) and change the sign if need be. Assign a few people and the park board doesn't need to know a thing.

[Shorty]

We're authorized to close the trails whenever we see fit, which means we can flip the sign and post the trails as closed on the forums.

Very cool!

Good info to know... something MORC can bring up during discussions with other land managers.

[[defective]]

Rode a few laps of the north loop at 6:30 tonight.

Completely solid. 80% hard packed snow and ice. Good patches of slick in a few inopportune spots. A couple of short frozen ruts, but nothing like the legendary Rut Of Yore.

[Chug]

Rode a couple loops this morning w/defective. Frozen solid, and us too. Full length foot warmers would have been nice. Should all be good to go as long as the temps stay down, watch the ice.

[Chug]

Woo Hooo, virgin snow by about a half lap in front of some other seekers.
Slick, slick, slick, slowest lap I have done. Something about the snow seemed really slippery (who knew), studs barely grabbed.
Go have fun.

[RedSquirrel]

Lunch today....snow day...I saw previous poster bike tracks & prob Adam's from last night? Looked liked those out last night had a ball!!!

Today saw pugsly tracks going in so I shoe'd opposite direction. I saw the wild pug about 3/4 through his lap...

I did a full snow shoe lap. About 4 inches of snow depth, now pushed all over by aforementioned activities. Very light snow, great for those home made studs too long for bare ice.... I'll be biking multiple hours Tuesday.

Mara, put on some yellow wax and drag through there 10 times.

[nord0306]

nice nice snow! Had a great lap, Heath you and the pugz did a great job with the tread, too bad it's not that easy in the summer. Looks like the conditions should be solid (no pun, really) all week.
Adam

[RedSquirrel]

Just shoe'd it again at lunch today. I pushed, with shovel, alot of snow where people had trouble. Oh yes I did. For the white purist, let's just say 2-3 laps should be do-able instead of one now. I saw pug and at least three other new tracks out there today. Nice job! Packing up nice. Conditions are crunchy packed or bare (do I dare say tacky in spots!).

[fatbaldpop1]

rode it yesterday and was impressed more than i can say about the Snow Plowing Snoeshoe man!

[stoneage]

rode it yesterday and was impressed more than i can say about the Snow Plowing Snoeshoe man!
I thought that was you, Will. I was classic skiing going the opposite way.

[RedSquirrel]

Bravo! Out of hiding for 3 laps tonight. The trail ending was unbeleivable fun. Hills we're cruser & cruser sections we're slowed (freaky trail work ba ha ha). Constant circles the result! Timed 2 laps @ 25 & 27 min. Studs didn't help, wish I had 2.5's instead of 2.1's.

[Chug]

3 laps Tuesday night. Very narrow and a must to stay centered, easy to get sucked off the line.
Snow Shoe?

C.

[rideharder]

lots of muddy spot out there today. also lots of big skid and washouts at the ski trail crossings. take it easy when crossing so you dont rut up the trail. there is little snow as it is and we on the loppet course committee have worked hard this last week to shore up and thin spots. we dont want to be repairing bike tracks.

Paul
Co-Chief of Race Coures

[RiverRat]

Did three laps last night. Conditions were GREAT!!! Looks like there was only one set of tracks since the fresh 1/4" of powder from sunday night/monday morning. Did some unintentional trail widening while not being careful to stay on the hardpack (thanks snowshoers!). Bring on more snow!!!

[Chug]

2 quick laps tonight, and I mean quick. It was almost like riding a dry trail in July. T'was perfect, get out tomorrow if you can.

[jag]

Trail was great today. -4degrees. yikes. feet got cold. everything else was ok. woke up the deer family. kind of felt bad about that. no humans. got rid of the face slappers after the berm.

[jjrsds]

Trail in great shape, 12-18 inches wide, 0.75-1.0 inch medium base, 3 laps in natural light 1 lap headlight on. Ran 32-20 rigid, no studs, and had a blast. Studs were optional tonight, but as the trail refreezes tonight the next 5 or 6 days should make it fast for those with big, nasty pointy teeth sticking out of their tires. Take the time to dress warm and ride Theo in a different condition and make sure to thank the MOCA crew.

Please make sure you look out for the skiers when crossing over the x-c ski trails. Always yield and be pleasant, they are out to enjoy the area for the same reasons that we do, a few seconds saying hi nice day as you wait for them to pass can only help MOCA and MORC.

[jag]

True, great trail conditions.

Anyway, There is a tree down at the end of the south loop. Too high to get over it.

5degrees felt a lot better than -5degrees.

[mara]

Anyway, There is a tree down at the end of the south loop. Too high to get over it.

The park forresters are galloping to the rescue, chainsaw in hand. The tree should be out soon. Thanks for the heads up.

As always, please be careful out there -- Mother Nature is one tricky lady.

[manual63]

Too high to get over it.

Are you sure??.......:D

[jag]

I forgot, the end of the trail may be different for me than you. It is not near the 55 exit. It is near the exit further north. The uphill part after the little rock pile on the corner.

[nord0306]

I forgot, the end of the trail may be different for me than you. It is not near the 55 exit. It is near the exit further north. The uphill part after the little rock pile on the corner.

Oh, I see, where the trail crosses the paved walking path and then goes through the two narrow trees.

I'll redirect the chainsaws...

Adam

[soupboy]

Who said she's a lady?

This is Mother Nature:

http://static.iq.lycos.co.uk/data/en/209/03/209035c3380db75c158b5bcccf2bafe4_1.jpg

The park forresters are galloping to the rescue, chainsaw in hand. The tree should be out soon. Thanks for the heads up.

As always, please be careful out there -- Mother Nature is one tricky lady.

[jag]

Rode tonight after work. Trail is super hard packed. Not icy. Saw a lot of cool dirt. Don't need studs, but they might help to take corners faster. maybe.

Thanks for removing the tree.:)

[Chug]

Did three last nice. A lot of dirt starting to show out there. Couple of Ice ruts in corners but still fast.
Look at those temps next week!
Get out before we go back into thaw, freeze, thaw mode again.

[manual63]

With temps rising and snow thaw, please be careful to not ride the trails when they are thawing. If there are mud spots and you are leaving tire tread on the ground, that's a good sign it's too warm to ride.

This is the time of year to start planning urban road rides. I will be posting some up within the next couple of weeks in the group rides section so those itching to get out on their bikes can do so in a nice fun group riding atmosphere. Don't worry, we do these road rides on our mountain bikes and it's not high speed.

Please be nice to our trails and stay off of them during spring thaw. Unless we go into another deep freeze, it's likely most of the trails will be unrideable soon. That usually lasts until about Mid April or early May...depending on temps and precip.

Thank you!

[Wheels]

I'm going to step on the Trail Stewards territory for moment (because I know he's busy, and we won't mind) - but the trails are closed.

We'll be putting up the fencing before the end of the week, the signs have been flipped - stay off please until further notice.

This time of year, these kind of conditions - will simply destroy the trail. The surface thaws, but just an inch or so below the ground will still be frozen - you'll cut a rut, the area below will thaw - and there will be standing water everywhere.

Spread the word. Theo is closed.

[nord0306]

The Orange fencing is up. Please post up if you see that it has fallen down. The ground was still pretty frozen, I pounded in the posts as far as I could, but they might need some more pounding later in the week.

There are a lot of bare spots, the trail is very much in spring mode right now. We will need some consistant below freezing temps to make it rideable.

Somebody from MOCA will post if it is rideable.

thanks
Adam

[RedSquirrel]

Cush cush cush. Foot deep. I expect to do three laps (if my old 4 leg bud can make it). Will be out this week too. Pugs will ride soon!

By the way I parked at rope tow golf lot, plowed. Skinny ski peeps, machines already did their job for you.

[RedSquirrel]

Cush cush cush. Foot deep. I expect to do three laps (if my old 4 leg bud can make it). Will be out this week too. Pugs will ride soon! I did complete 3 laps with my mutt. The trail has a nice shape now, I'll be out Tuesday at lunch on shoes. I imagine pugs will be able to ride most of the trail by the end of the week. With well over a week of advantageous weather, hope to ride. Plenty of snow to move around too.

I'll post when ride-able, others post up too, trail lords.....bout' that fence!

[fatbaldpop1]

Bring on the Pugs, Mutts and Shoe'ers...Winter is finally here.

[Wheels]

Adam is out of town, can somebody give a trail report? Will H., have you been out?

I don't care if the fence comes down, if the trails are hard - ride'm. But it's been pretty warm - maybe some night rides?

They're your trails - you guys tell us if they're good enough to ride. Most of you know when it's alright, the orange fence if for the "don't give a rip" crowd, and the "don't know any better" crowd.

[fatbaldpop1]

Pretty deep and heavy snow. I opted to ski yesterday instead. The shoers and mutt walkers are our future. Early am rides are always the best this time of year. The Pug boys may be able to have a good ride today...

[Chug]

Whats the word, anybody ride it yet? I got the itch and it needs to be scratched.

[nord0306]

Judging by the weather, I think the trails are okay to ride if you want. Will somebody just move the orange fence out of the way? I'm sure they will have to go back up soon when the snow starts to melt.

thanks
Adam

[RedSquirrel]

Lunchtime, snow shoe’d a lap again (that’s 4 laps since storm!). I saw another shoe’er & other tracks from others getting on & off trail, basically rental traffic?

RIDE CONDITIONS: I'd say WHEN FROZEN 25%-50% rideable w/normal mtn tires(between panting & spinouts!!!). Guess PUGS will be able to ride 75%(if you got big lungs). Without PUG I'd go when frozen in AM or when cold. What ever, just have fun!! It will be quite a bike adventure.

SNOW DETAILS: 100% snowcover, ha ha. Generally snow felt soft powdery or punchy warm 3 inches under shoes. Mainly it was creaky sounding otherwise it was totally snowball pack-able type snow. Now 85% of trail has a medium pack super sweet looking shape. Today I baby step stomped a ton of sections to “hardpack” like a snowball.

Of all trails, I have no doubt during frozen periods THEO will be best chance of rideable trail this weekend. It looks packed & has a great shape!! See pics, it should firm up nice.
[/URL]
http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3955 (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3955)
[URL]http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3956
http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3957

[Wheels]

Sounds like it's a bit soft yet, standard tires will probably rut-up the hard pack - so let's wait until we hear back from the pugs or snowshoers on the conditions before riding.

Sounds like more snow to come.

[fatbaldpop1]

I skied Wirth at Sunrise this morning and looked at the trail at all of the intersections. Great amount of Snowshoe effort, but unless you are on a Pug a lap will take about 50 minutes with about 3 minutes of riding and 47 of lugging...sounds like about 12" more of snow is coming tonight anyway...The ski trails were pretty sweet this morning, though..

[RedSquirrel]

I did another solo lap from 2-4pm today. Deep & snowing super hard!! I swear I dug up way solid base under but 6 inches on top! I had a shovel just for fun. Many small the trees we're bent over the trail. The best part was knocking snow off trees & watching them rebound upright again.

Anyway, mother nature will give way by May I just know it! I'll get a mud free frozen ride in before then, maybe. My next post may not be til after I ride. And by the way, if I don't get to ride til May, it will be fun trying!!!! Let's shovel the whole trail, ha ha ha. If anyone wants to shoe real early Saturday am pm me.

[col200]

I'm gonna try to shoe tomorrow sometime. Don't know when but if it's early, I'll see you out there. I think the GF wants to go too so it'll probably be later.

[high life]

I was out on my snow shoes a couple of times over the weekend (once on Friday afternoon and once on Saturday evening). Unfortunately, it looked like a few people walked the trail with regular boots, leaving 6" deep impressions in the snow. I did my best to stomp these footprints out. I also tried to make use of the abundant snowfall by shaping some snow-berms with my snowshoes. I would guess that the trail would be rideable with a Pug, but probably not without.

[RiverRat]

I was out on my snow shoes a couple of times over the weekend (once on Friday afternoon and once on Saturday evening). Unfortunately, it looked like a few people walked the trail with regular boots, leaving 6" deep impressions in the snow. I did my best to stomp these footprints out. I also tried to make use of the abundant snowfall by shaping some snow-berms with my snowshoes. I would guess that the trail would be rideable with a Pug, but probably not without.

You must have showed up shortly after me on Friday. I did a full loop, along with some backtracking to pack some sections better, and some downed tree removal. I started around 2:30 on friday and left around 4:30 or 5:00. I passed a couple people that were just leaving on my way in that had done an out and back on the beginning of the trail, a little past the rock garden, so that part should be pretty solid by now with the extra passes and the freeze thaw cycles over the weekend. Most of the rest of the trail was fresh powder still.

[RedSquirrel]

You must have showed up shortly after me on Friday. I did a full loop, along with some backtracking to pack some sections better, and some downed tree removal. I started around 2:30 on friday and left around 4:30 or 5:00. I passed a couple people that were just leaving on my way in that had done an out and back on the beginning of the trail, a little past the rock garden, so that part should be pretty solid by now with the extra passes and the freeze thaw cycles over the weekend. Most of the rest of the trail was fresh powder still.

Nice folks!! I've put in sooo many hours since these last two storms. I put a lap in on shoes Saturday night from 7-9:30pm with shovel. Bring a shovel, that way you can move snow over trees, into boot holes etc...

Yep the beginning and middle are the worst areas. I fixed many boot hole areas. I made some sweet traverses accross roads, rock pile and cc trail crossings.

The ending is in good shape. I'll be shoe-ing and moving snow with shovel Wed and Thurs at lunch. Those nights will be bad nights, as will others. I'd say am rides this weekend are possible...

Miller you dogged me Sat am!! :laugh:

[Stonehenge]

Bring a shovel, that way you can move snow over trees, into boot holes etc...Yep the beginning and middle are the worst areas. I fixed many boot hole areas.

"FOOT HOLES" Makes one wonder....perhaps walkers should be discouraged form walking the mountainbike trails in the winter season as to keep the trail in best ridding condition.... Leb and Theo may be able to control it.... riverbottoms would be very tough.

[nord0306]

and some downed tree removal.

Do I need to call in the chainsaws for this?

"FOOT HOLES" Makes one wonder....perhaps walkers should be discouraged form walking the mountainbike trails in the winter season as to keep the trail in best ridding condition.... Leb and Theo may be able to control it.... riverbottoms would be very tough.
the trail is officially multi-use, so bi-peds are always allowed on the trail when it is open. Plus, the hassle in enforcing that would not be worth the small benefit.

I might make it out there tonight, I'll bring the shoes and the bike and see how it goes.

Adam

[RedSquirrel]

Do I need to call in the chainsaws for this?
Adam

One tree was remaining Saturday eve. It was one of those long 3-4 inch round twigy things. I dig around it and buried it. Still on trail....you'll see it. Too round to break and too long to pull off or push over other trees.

Biking will be tough going to impassable in most begining & middle areas. Still punchy (even sat night at 15 degrees). I felt snow give under my shoes. More stomping and snow moving with shovels needed. You'll see.

[high life]

Miller you dogged me Sat am!! :laugh:

Sorry. I had a friend in from out of town. We drank a few too many barley sodas for an early Saturday morning stomp. In fact, I don't think I even actually saw Saturday A.M.

[col200]

Me and the GF got a lap in sunday afternoon. I also noticed some boot prints. I wondered if they were just from some extreme spikes on the bottom of someone's snowshoes:confused:. I use "old-school" snowshoes and they seem to have a "cleaner" pack than the alum. shoes but have a much wider span so it took some balance to try to stay within the narrow path made by you guys:D. I really hope we get some cold weather to freeze this stuff. I'm dying to ride it after hiking it!

[steef]

I rode Wirth Parkway on my commute today and there didn't seem to be any tire tracks going down the service road.

[col200]

That's good to hear.

...but we all know the inevitable.:cryin:

Let's hope this warm weather keeps up and dries it up ASAP before goons get into the "I'm biking no matter what" mood.