Trail Conditions in Detail - Theodore Wirth

[Thewavebb]

I am supposed to meet somebody at theo to do some rides this late morning. You think there is any chance of it being dry enough to ride?

[Aaroneous]

I am supposed to meet somebody at theo to do some rides this late morning. You think there is any chance of it being dry enough to ride?

I'm sure it will be fine. It really barely rained last night - by the time I was done writing that post, it had stopped. The trail was getting kinda dusty in places anyhow...

[Trevize1138]

Rode it over lunch and it's even more perfect than before the rains. In fact, it's really great for trail work now! ;) ;) ;)

[stefan]

Anyone hit the dirt this morning? Is it soggy?

[Wheels]

Bill just called in, he says it looks good - but it will be too wet as soon as this rain hits.

So you have about three hours to get on the trail before it's closed.

[Wheels]

Rain has started, corners are getting slick - so we're closed for the day.

[stoneage]

As I was helping a nice, but confused new rider off the trail today as the rain was starting, I saw a rider who knew better crossing an orange fence that I had temporarily pulled onto the entrance of the obviously wet singletrack. I would personally like to thank that rider for riding on wet trail. By doing so he slows down the process of building new trail, as the trail workers have to repair damaged tread instead of constructing new, more challenging trail. This has the effect of taking the pressure off me, as I have much more time to layout new trail, and can take as much time off as I want. Again, thank you very much for your thoughtfulness, and I hope to see you out at Theo again.

[gopherhockey]

We've said it time and time and time and time again but it never ceases to amaze me that someone would cross an orange fence under any situation to get to a trail. We run into them all the time at Leb and they never remember seeing any such fence.

Not sure if there is a lower form of life on this earth... in the biking world anyway...

Next spring we're going to think about using stronger wire fencing and string it well out into the woods. If they must get around it they can work for it at least... we'll plant some prickly thorns around the ends as well. ;)

[steef]

You could use poison ivy instead of prickly thorns. ;)

[Aaroneous]

So... It didn't rain any more overnight, and sun is coming out... Can I ride yet? This afternoon? Pleeeeeeeease?

[stoneage]

The K Krerw will be in there about 3. I would imagine that it should be OK after noon.

[flombe]

I was over there at 8 AM and the orange fence was up so I ripped it down and cursed whoever thinks they can close MY trail....Hahaha! A joke only a joke.:D

I was there and the fence is up and the trail looked wet. Did not ride. Maybe later today? Post up conditions if you head over to Theo today.

[stefan]

I wanted to try and see if I could do 4 or 5 laps this afternoon. I think I'm heading down to check it out at like noon or so, but all these clouds might make the drying process a little slow. Failing that, maybe I'll try out the grand rounds scenic route.

On the subject of trail closings, maybe we should have a little sign right next to the trail at the entrance that we can use to indicate if the trail is open or closed.. I know the trailhead kiosk has it, but it doesn't really stand out that much if you're not standing there reading the kiosk.

[Wheels]

Bill is checking the trail right now, I'll post back in 30 minutes.

[jitterjepp]

I wanted to try and see if I could do 4 or 5 laps this afternoon. I think I'm heading down to check it out at like noon or so, but all these clouds might make the drying process a little slow. Failing that, maybe I'll try out the grand rounds scenic route.

On the subject of trail closings, maybe we should have a little sign right next to the trail at the entrance that we can use to indicate if the trail is open or closed.. I know the trailhead kiosk has it, but it doesn't really stand out that much if you're not standing there reading the kiosk.I say instead of the orange fencing thing we have a wooden gate with a sign that says in giant letters. "The trail is closed because it is wet. When the trail is open again the gate will be opened. If the gate is closed it means the trail is closed. It does not mean go around the gate and ride the trail."

[Wheels]

OK - Bill just called in, it's open. Just a little slick, but nothing that will cause damage by riding it.

On the issue of a more permanent method for closing, I just got word yesterday from the MPRB that we can install a better system - something more obvious and permanent.

[stefan]

I rode out this morning to check it out, and there were probably 4-5 people out riding the trails. We talked to them and they said "Well the fences are up but I don't think they are supposed to be closed". We told them that they shouldn't ride them when the orange fencing is out. We rode down the roads through Theo to take a peek, and some spots seemed pretty soft still. By the time we circled around, someone had taken the fence down.

I think part of the confusion is because while the fences may be in place, the official trailhead signs still say "open".

[Wheels]

The signs say "OPEN - trails closed when wet". We need a better system.

Bill took the fences down.

[djflom]

I understand limited time and resources, but it may be a good idea to have status markers at each trail crossing. Spoke to a rider this morning that said, "Yeah, that part's closed, but I rode the rest of the trail." It may have been a cope out, but worth considering in the future.

[Aaroneous]

I kinda wasn't sure what to do today. I got there around 12:30 after I saw Shawn's "Bill just called in, it's open" post... It wasn't bad at all, (coupla puddles, couple slick corners) but the fence was still up. Each lap I hung out there, and when people showed up and went "Aww..." at the fence, I waved them in. But I didn't feel I had the authority to actually move it - especially since there was a big ol' nasty puddle right at the trailhead.

I was there for a good 3hrs, and someone pulled the fence eventually, but... hmm... lost my train of thought...

[stoneage]

There is always going to be a little confusion when the conditions vary. It rained on and off for a whole day, so the trail stayed wetter than with a quick downpour. The fence at the North loop entrance was placed by someone other than me, but shows that people are starting to realize the importance of taking care of this resource. Just the "aw..." comments upon seeing the fence is edifying as far as I'm concerned. The guy that went over the fence the other day would have gone over a dump truck. He just didn't care, but there are many more people starting to do the right thing. Thanks.
:)
BTW, I dropped the fence on my way over to Kenwood to pick up the K Krew. We were out there for 2-3 hours.

[stefan]

Got four laps in the early afternoon today. The trail is perfect! Lots of people were out. Did someone work on the tabletop at the very end of the trail last wednesday? It seemed really good today.

[TrailPatrol]

The trail is perfect! Lots of people were out.

Well, old fat, slow me just did one lap but it sure was nice. Trails are in superb shape. What rain we got reduced the dust but didn't do any damage. Lots and lots of people there. Offered water to a couple of folks without H2O packs, but that was about it for my "patrol." I think I spotted almost everyone who came up behind me and got out of the way. (Except for the guy--without a helmet--who tried to pass without saying anything and drove me off into the brush.:mad: ) Hope I didn't slow anyone down.

Gotta give credit to you MOCA folks...that is one great trail system! I am not even an avid singletracker, but I really like riding at Wirth now.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[Wheels]

Thanks for patrolling today Hans...

I experienced an etiquette issue today as well, 2 different people with their iPods on too loud to hear me coming up behind them...

Personally, I like to hear the sounds of the park and my tires scrubbing dirt - but that's just me. It's a free country, just turn the thing down a bit is all I ask.

[stoneage]

Gotta give credit to you MOCA folks...that is one great trail system! I am not even an avid singletracker, but I really like riding at Wirth now.

Thanks for the review Hans.

[Trevize1138]

I daresay we could use some rain! Maybe it was the time spent picking gravel out of my forearm last night, but some parts of Theo are getting downright dusty and dry.

[[defective]]

Mostly perfect.

The only issues today were a couple of loose corners in the north loop that are starting to wash out on even reasonable cornering. Also, the landing side of the jump is turning into a sand pit as it succumbs to the sinkhole underneath it.

There are still a few ruts we missed last week at trailwork.

[Chug]

That Scott guy is really scary.

[steef]

concurrence. ;)

The trails seemed nice and fast to me. Yes, there are a few rutty sections, but it's real mostly great. I don't mind the washout sections, itkeeps me on my toes. :D

[col200]

Great shape. Almost too dry again, but that just means it dang fast! Careful on those sharp turns :D

[flombe]

Great shape. Almost too dry again, but that just means it dang fast! Careful on those sharp turns :D

Agreed. Excellent conditions, super fast. Love it!

There were a ton of people riding Theo tonight. The coolest thing I saw was a mom and dad with two boys (mid to early teens?) out doing some singletrack! How cool is that?

[stefan]

I think I saw that family a few days ago out there, too! Cool.

My guess is that tomorrow morning is going to be pretty soggy. Seems like the ground outside has soaked up all it can for the time being.

[Wheels]

Trails are too wet to ride, please stay off until further notice.

[Yammer]

So what's up with Gary Fisher then? What if he wants to ride rain or shine?

[Wheels]

Gary who?

The trails are closed.

(I hear they're planning a pavement ride for tomorrow).

[Trevize1138]

Gary Fisher? You mean the bike maker? I'm sure he would say even if he wanted to ride Theo today he wouldn't because he knows the value of maintaining trails. :)

[Wheels]

Just goes to show how much things have changed...

The last time the self-proclaimed "father of MTB" did one of these rides here (at least the last time I did one with him) was in 1993. We rode the river bottoms, and it rained before we went out - and started raining again before we finished the ride.

We didn't even think about the trails, we just did the ride. Back then it was considered fun to ride the mud.

We know a lot more now, so when rain was in the forecast for friday plans had already begun to move his ride to the pavement.

[jitterjepp]

Either way i set up some Rambo/McGyver style traps along the trail just in case folks thought about going for a ride and trashing the trail. If you see a tree swing up and a mountain biker go flying thirty five feet in the air in a southward direction south over highway 55.....thats one of my traps near the south loop entrance.

[Trevize1138]

Either way i set up some Rambo/McGyver style traps along the trail just in case folks thought about going for a ride and trashing the trail. If you see a tree swing up and a mountain biker go flying thirty five feet in the air in a southward direction south over highway 55.....thats one of my traps near the south loop entrance.

Ah yeah ... it's starting to feel like early April again! Break out the land mines, boys! :crazy2:

[The Goat Killer]

Riding in the "rain" ain't so bad, it's AFTER when the trails are still wet. Will we lose the ability to even ride MTB,s in the mud? :cool:

[KleinCrazy]

Riding in the "rain" ain't so bad, it's AFTER when the trails are still wet. Will we lose the ability to even ride MTB,s in the mud? :cool:

If you wanted to ride in the mud you could have been riding here this weekend....

http://www.transiowa.blogspot.com/

[FSSS]

Riding in the "rain" ain't so bad, it's AFTER when the trails are still wet. Will we lose the ability to even ride MTB,s in the mud? :cool:

Riding a trail when the tread is too soft damages the trail.
Damaged trails erode.
Eroded trails on public lands get shut down by land managers.


Your best bet will be trails on private land.


pc

[highpants]

does anyone know if the trail has dried out yet? i was thinking about riding over there this afternoon, but it's kind of a long spinny ride on a singlespeed, so it probably would only be worth the trip if i knew there was some singletrack in store.

[Wheels]

Somebody will check them soon, I'm guessing they should be open by 5:00 -but hold tight.

[Trevize1138]

I'll see about getting out there with enough time to report back on conditions by 5.

[Trevize1138]

How 'bout this, I'll report every 1/2 hour on trail conditions until I go out there and check them out myself.

12:30 p.m. - Haven't been there yet. No report.

Next report at 1 p.m. :crazy:

[highpants]

well, now that i've been outside on my lunch break and seen how wet open ground that's sitting in the sun is (i.e. versus singletrack in the shade), i'd expect that the trails are still pretty wet as well.

[manual63]

Chris D report via cell phone after leaving Theo.

Trails should be rideable by 5:00 tonight (5/2/2006) with a few usual slick spots. One problem, looks like rain coming in from the west. If it doesn't rain...ride, but be aware of some slick spots. Do not go around the wet spots since that widens the trail, just walk over them or ride through them if your tires don't leave a rut.

[Trevize1138]

The trail was really borderline at 2:30. A lot of slick corners but the marks made weren't any deeper than my tread. The worst of the ruts were in section 5, aka White Pine Flier, aka "That section what got the concrete skinny." The clay there soaks up water a little too well.

But, as for the rest of the trail, if we got no precip between now and tomorrow at noon conditions would be about perfect then. Doesn't look like we'll get that lucky, though. You may have a very narrow window of opportunity between 5 and 6 based on the forecast.

Everyone keep your fingers crossed!

[Trevize1138]

Forgot to mention:

Tree down across the trail at the beginning of Snake/end of Connundrum. That's toward the beginning of the north loop just after the big, switchback climb.

[steef]

Looks like the rain missed us so far, at least it did here at 38th and Grand.

[flombe]

I headed out for a ride around 5:00 and the trail is too wet for riding IMHO!

Greasy corners and a few wet spots like Chris noted earlier, but a half dozen riders had been through before me and there are some nasty ruts developing in a few spots and in White Pine Flyer in particular.

I am assuming that Chris' run on mostly untracked trail was fairly doable, but the subsequent riders churned up the top layer of the soil and created muck in several spots.

I bushwhacked out of White Pine Flyer, headed home for a bike wash.

[Trevize1138]

Crap!

Yeah, I had the trail guessed wrong. Goes to show even those of us who built the trail can get too anxious to ride it!

Don't forget, everyone: trailwork tonight at 5! Sounds like there's plenty of repair work to go around. So, if you care about the trail, do come out and help. Plenty of tools and knowledge to go around. :)

[Sevadari]

Howdy gang! (Sorry, it's a slightly long post) Not sure what the "trolling" (in Wirth Lake parking lot) that was mentioned in earlier posts is all about, but I can pretty much guess!

So, I thought I'd pass along a sure-fire way I've figured out to avoid the riff raff many of you were talking about...ride Wirth at 6am! No chance that they'd be out there at that time, unless of course they were on their way back home after a night of debauchery! That's what I did this morning and the only creatures I had to share the trail with were a beautiful young deer, a duck, and a dozen or so squirrels (yes, I yielded properly)...what a morning!

Since I've just recently moved out to the Twin Cities this was my first ride at Theo Wirth (did both loops), which I've heard so much about. I tried like a dickens to get out last night when I knew I'd probably bump into some of you more knowledgeable ones that post here...but between the 3 young children under 6, a trip to the doctor's office for the oldest, and a visit from in-laws...it didn't happen.

On trail conditions this morning, I will concur with the previous few posts...although I do think the (unexpected) lack of rain last night and this morning are helping out.

Although I won't be able to make it out for the trail maintenance tonight, I'm going to try to join you sometime in the future. Not having participated with any trail builds/maintenance here in MN, do any young kids (that know how to work in the dirt!) ever come? It's not always my favorite thing to do, but sometimes it's what I have to do to support something I believe in while taking care of my fatherly duties...plus, it does build a great outdoors ethic with the future riders of our world.

Lastly, just want to complement you all for the wonderful work you have done, what a great place to ride! Some real fun sections...too many to call attention to without knowing the names, but it was a blast!

Although it's a lot shorter and more compact than what I'm used to riding out west (Utah and California), I look forward to a lot more fun rides to come. Great work also in working with the local officials to get it accepted as a permanent mountain biking trail...we are lucky to be the recipients of your effort, conscientiousness, and persistence. Thanks and hope to see you out there some time!

PS Are the Tuesday night rides at Theo a regular thing through most of Spring and Summer?

[Sevadari]

Not having participated with any trail builds/maintenance here in MN, do any young kids (that know how to work in the dirt!) ever come? It's not always my favorite thing to do, but sometimes it's what I have to do to support something I believe in while taking care of my fatherly duties...plus, it does build a great outdoors ethic with the future riders of our world.


Woaaaaa!!! :confused:

Sometimes it's good to re-read your own post (like I just did a second ago)! Just wanted to clarify that what I was referring to when I said, "It's not always my favorite thing to do" is NOT trail maintenance, but slogging the kids TO trail maintenance.

In my experience with my 6 year old, she loves it for about the first 15 minutes and then either gets pooped out or loses interest.

Guess, I've got to be more careful with how I throw my pronouns around!:crazy:

Noticed right after I posted earlier that a decision had been made (on a different thread) to close the trail today until further notice. Oops! Didn't mean to buck against the system, just was jones'in for some trail time and the post hadn't been put up at 5:00 am when I rose with the roosters to get there!

See ya'll out on the trail some time!

[Burke]

Welcome to the MORC and the boards! We look forward to seeing you at trail work and out on the trail! ...and if you're not already, consider becoming a member.

Scott

[Trevize1138]

There's a 9-year-old who's the son of a friend of my wife and I that I keep meaning to take out to trail work. Don't let the kid stop ya, take her out with you and she can learn about trail building techniques and why the trail's built the way it is even if she's too small to work. Start 'em while they're young! :)

Woaaaaa!!! :confused:

Sometimes it's good to re-read your own post (like I just did a second ago)! Just wanted to clarify that what I was referring to when I said, "It's not always my favorite thing to do" is NOT trail maintenance, but slogging the kids TO trail maintenance.

In my experience with my 6 year old, she loves it for about the first 15 minutes and then either gets pooped out or loses interest.

Guess, I've got to be more careful with how I throw my pronouns around!:crazy:

Noticed right after I posted earlier that a decision had been made (on a different thread) to close the trail today until further notice. Oops! Didn't mean to buck against the system, just was jones'in for some trail time and the post hadn't been put up at 5:00 am when I rose with the roosters to get there!

See ya'll out on the trail some time!

[Trevize1138]

I rode out at noon and spot-checked the problem areas from yesterday. I can confidently say the trail was good to go at noon and will be even moreso after work today. Conditions are tacky and the greasy spots have firmed up.

Too bad nobody's going to ride there this afternoon, though, what with how we'll all be busy with trail work. :)

[El-Rock]

If I can I was going to ride out there at 3pm today...is it ok to ride?

[stoneage]

As stated, younger kids tend to lose interest pretty quick. It's a great way for father-daughter/son to be out together. When I was steward I would try to put them together doing maintenance work, as flying Pulaskis and McCleods don't mix with unattentive children very well. I think it is best to separate them from the work crew a little.

[stoneage]

If I can I was going to ride out there at 3pm today...is it ok to ride?
After the ride, stop by the work crew and lend a hand with the trail maintenance. We start at 5.

[Wheels]

I think it's closed Eric, check the front page for conditions.

Oops - never mind, Chris updated the conditions to tacky... so it's open.

This time of year it's day-by-day, once summer hits the trail is usually open within hours of the rain stopping.

[El-Rock]

ok I'm getting lots of mixed messages...
Trevize1138 (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/member.php?u=157)
just told me it was ok...

I think I'll be riding and helping...do I need to bring anything to help...?

[Trevize1138]

We recommend full-length jeans (underbrush, ticks and all that) non-exposed toe shoes, gloves and eye protection. Bug dope is recommended once we get to that season but we're thankfully not quite there yet. :)

Tools and training will be provided.

[Trevize1138]

Yeah, sorry for the confusion, folks! But, we do thank you all for checking here for conditions before you go out. It helps a LOT!

I think it's closed Eric, check the front page for conditions.

Oops - never mind, Chris updated the conditions to tacky... so it's open.

This time of year it's day-by-day, once summer hits the trail is usually open within hours of the rain stopping.

[flombe]

Conditions = perfection! No rain until Sunday night. Go ride!

[Wheels]

Thanks Eric, and thanks to all for being patient during this rainy season. We're pretty lucky to even be on the trails this early in the year - last year we didn't open until early May, and even then it was closed quite a bit due to rain.

The trails will dry very quickly if we stay off when it's raining or they are soggy. The trails are designed to allow water to move across them, so it doesn't gather in any one spot - but rather sheets across the trail. When you ride a soft or muddy trail you leave a rut - which breaks the sheeting water and allows it to collect in the middle or the rut, and the trail take longer to dry out.

This is something the old trails don't feature, they are most often built in flat spots, end up cupping and holding water longer. Check one of the old trails after a rain and then check Theo - Theo will often be dry within hours after a rain stops, where the old trails are wet for a couple of days.

The most damage you can cause to a trail in short period of time is to ride them when they are soft.

This is what we've learned from IMBA, this is what the MPRB likes, and this is what takes the least amount of effort to maintain (which means we can all ride more often).

I hope that more of you will come to see the advantages of sustainable trail, and the benefits of staying off the trails when they're soft or wet.

The only reason we ever close the trails is because you're likely to cause damage that will degrade the trail, we do our best to evaluate the trail as soon as the rain stops and we post that information here on the site.

Both on this thread and on the "Trail Conditions" link on the MORC home page.

[highpants]

The above just makes sense. I appreciate all the hard work that went into creating and maintaining this wonderful (and free!) resource and look forward to helping out with trail work sometime soon.

[syntaxjunkie]

Trail conditions today? Um, that'd be perfect. The rain settled the dusty spots down nicely, and there was just enough tack to make railing the corners even more fun than usual.

A couple shout-outs:

First, to Tom and April: Thanks for coming out to ride. On your first off-road ride ever and first of the season, respectively, you hammered like pros. I'm glad you had fun, and hope we do it a lot more this summer.

Next, to The Guy Who Actually Had A Chain Tool. I've broken one chain in ten years, and I stopped carrying my chain tool a few years ago in some sort of foolhardy gram-shaving gambit. If not for your fortuitous appearance at the trailhead, Tom's first ride would've been very short. Suffice it to say that I'll be carrying one from now on. You're a lifesaver, and I'm sorry I didn't get your name. If you read this, please post back or shoot my a PM so I can thank you properly.

Finally, to the guy I met at the trailhead of the main loop between laps. I guess you hadn't been out to Wirth in awhile, and I'm glad I was able to get you turned around before you rode smack-dab into someone jumping off of the double about 50 yards further down the trail. You sounded pretty disappointed that some of the old trail features – the teeter totter, etc. – were gone. Since you weren't familiar with the new trail, I'll assume you haven't been coming to trail work sessions. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to catch up with you after you'd had a chance to actually ride the new trail to see what you thought. I hope you enjoyed it. And if you've got ideas for more challenging stunts, I hope you'll come out on Wednesday nights and work with us to try and make them happen.

[Smurf]

I'll second you Charles...the trail was in perfect condition. Did my first ride down at Theo this morning. All I can say is that it'll be more fun after I get my azz back in shape.

To whichever one of you guys it was that blew past me (the slow dude on the orange Hardrock), thanks for slowing down enough to say Hi. I appreciate it. ;) :D

[Trevize1138]

Trail's greasy and slippery all over. I spot-checked it and rode 1/4 of it very slow so I wouldn't make much of a mark but I couldn't have ridden much faster anyway or I'd slide out on the corners.

Don't expect this trail to be dry the rest of the day. If we don't get any rain and it gets sunny tomorrow (70% chance of rain, so no luck there) it would dry out tomorrow. But, looks like we'll have a couple days of being closed here.

[El-Rock]

question?

Will Wirth close everytime it rains?

[mara]

Wirth will close every time the trail gets wet enough that riding will damage the tread. Tacky is fine to ride, greasy/muddy/anything that will leave ruts is not. This isn't a major closing; we're just asking riders to stay off until the trail is dry enough to support traffic. Thanks for asking! :)

[stefan]

If the trail gets wet enough that riding on it will cause damage, it's closed.

[stoneage]

I checked, also. As I was calling in the conditions to Wheels, a guy came out of the trail. I asked him how far he had ridden and how the trail was, and he said he just entered, saw that it was too greasy, and came out. Thanks, Rodney, and hope to see you at trail work on Wednesday.
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
RULE OF THUMB, as far as I have determined:
Steady rain or drizzle for 3-4 or more hours - around 12-16 hours
Hard thunderstorm for 10-20 minutes - 4-6 hours

[manual63]

If the trail gets wet enough that riding on it will cause damage, it's closed.

This is pretty much a general rule and the kiosk and entrance signs have this stated on them.

We appreciate people being concerned and asking. That's very cool and thanks a bunch. There will be plenty of good riding days. It's always good to polish the skills on days like this. Go find a curb and learn to manual off of it or hop up it.......then when you can ride, you skills will be that much more polished for the trail. So it doesn't mean you have to stay off your bike, just don't ride the trails.

[Trevize1138]

Hard thunderstorm for 10-20 minutes - 4-6 hours

Trouble with yesterday is we did get basically a hard thunderstorm in the late morning but the trail wasn't drying nearly as fast. This was because the trail was already tacky so it didn't take much more moisture to really make it wet. Also, the weather was really muggy and overcast, so nothing dries quick in those conditions.

[El-Rock]

any word on today? is Wirth open?

[flombe]

I live a mile from the trailhead and received mucho rain last night! I am guessing 2-3" over a period of several hours. I will check my rain gauge and report back later.

The forecast this week is torturous and does not look good for riding off-road. Rain, begin drying out, rain, begin drying out, repeat.

[Wheels]

Closed for now, you can always check the trail conditions page if you're unsure:

Theo Trail Conditions (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/trail.php)

[El-Rock]

yeah I do check trail conditions...but that is from yesterday.

[Wheels]

We only change it when conditions change, so a closing can carry for as long as necessary - the date is just the date of the posting.

[Kosk]

Rolled thru this morning on my commute. Parts of the parkway were completely flooded across in a few places with 12" of standing water.

It pounded pretty hard last night in this neck of the metro, over an 1.5" I think. Trail tread looked pretty soaked when I went by the north end of the south loop.

Give'r a full day or two to dry out. Besides, the forecast looks not-so-good as well.

[Trevize1138]

yeah I do check trail conditions...but that is from yesterday.

The people who update the trail conditions usually live within a few miles of the trail and get out often to check it. When the trail does become rideable again the trail conditions will be updated within just a couple hours at the latest.

In addition to that, us regulars have a pretty good feel for how long it takes the trail to dry out after so much rain and with certain conditions.

[flombe]

I checked my rain gauge. Surprisingly I only received 1" of rain from Monday's downpours. I live 1 mile south of the trailheaad. My dad lives in Crystal (not far from Stoneage) about 3 miles from the trailhead and he had almost 4"! Theo likely received somewhere around 2". Either way, with tonight showers, I'd assume it is too soft to ride until we have a dry low humidity day.

[steef]

The dirt should be excellent for trailwork tonight!

[nord0306]

The dirt should be excellent for trailwork tonight!


Yeah, we will actually be able to ride sooner if we have more people to fix the ruts and berms that hold the water and prevent the trail from Drying out.

If you want to ride Theo ASAP, then come to the Par3 at 5pm today!

[manual63]

Trail is rideable. There are some typical greasy spots, but otherwise, go out and enjoy. If you are riding this evening between 5-7pm (5/10), please watch out for trailworkers. Thank you.....:)

[flombe]

Conditions are very good. A few loose spots in corners - watch your speed. Should be fine later tomorrow if no rain.

Thanks to the trail crews for taking care of some of the soft spots and re-pinning of corners! Repairs appear to be holding up well. Like the board ride on the exit of section 3, Mara! Nice concrete chunk work at entry to north loop too.

Saw one rider leaving, two on trail observing a pair of deer. That's it! What a difference a 20 degree drop in temps makes.

First OTB of the year for me too!

[Trevize1138]

I'm going to take a wild guess here:

Wet ... muddy ... unrideable ... closed. :)

[col200]

don't worry guys. I pulled the tarp over the trail last night. We can take it off when it's done raining. :D
If only it was that easy! haha

[Smurf]

Only a tarp??? We need to budget for a tent to erect over the whole thing so we can ride while it's raining....:crazy2:

[syntaxjunkie]

retractable roof.
with luxury boxes.
and a sushi bar.
or we move the entire trail to tulsa.

[El-Rock]

are they open today? no rain right?

[manual63]

are they open today? no rain right?

Let's wait and see until we get a report from one of the locals. With all the rain we had, no sun, and colder weather.....the trail is probably still really wet and soft. Thanks for asking.

[El-Rock]

no problem...I always check it out before I go...alas I am also a local..I live 1 block from Wirth...how do I get to be a "local"?

[Wheels]

Well Erik, Shad was referring to El Loco, or Baba - our resident local trail inspector :)

But, all you need to do is check the trail and give me a call so I can post it - viola', you be local. Or you can stop back home and update the trail conditions page and this thread.

If you need a little training on what constitutes "too wet" - just hook up with Bill O. and he can show you what he looks for.

[Kosk]

This morning on the ride in things were damper than I anticipated on the non-paved section I commute on (near the Theo area). It seems to be a pretty good barometer for how the actual trails are doing.

I glanced at the spur coming out of the north end of the south loop as I passed; one nice MTB track down the middle.... Definately too wet as of this AM. There was still standing water on some open pavement areas, so I'd speculate that the wooded singletrack is still drying out too.

[stoneage]

I'll be checking about 2 and calling Shad.

[stoneage]

referring to El Loco, or Baba
....or Stoneage, or Uno Rigido, or Oliver Klosauf.

[El-Rock]

awesome ...please post...I get off work around 5pm and would love to ride Wirth if it's open... sunny now...so maybe?

[manual63]

Based on Pete's post, I would plan on waiting another day. If there is standing water now, it will not be good to go by tonight. Even if the water goes away, the dirt will be too soft and will rut easily. We had a lot of rain, so please be patient. Thank you.

[Wheels]

Hate to do it, but their is an obvious lack of respect for the "police yourself" method of trail closures (the trails were heavily damaged over the weekend - even after riders were informed on site) so I've started a Poacher's pictures sticky on this section of the forum.

Let the controversy begin...

[manual63]

Trails were close to rideable, but rain is just going through as I speak. So it will be another day for sure. Please stay off the trail until we know it's ready to go. Thank you.

[El-Rock]

what are you talking about it's not raining? its sunny out!!!!!

No rain on the radar or horizon...

[stoneage]

what are you talking about it's not raining? its sunny out!!!!!

No rain on the radar or horizon...
I just had my wipers on as I left Wirth driving north on 100 at Golden Valley Road.. Popcorn showers are in the area. The trail is damp; I checked it, and any moisture now will leave them greasy. Plerase stay off until tomorrow.

[manual63]

No rain on the radar or horizon...
What radar are you looking at? The ones I looked at have rain coming. Right now the rain is coming from the NE, so make sure you do the animation if you have that option. We are used to it coming from the west, so it looks clear from that direction.

[flombe]

The rain is pretty localized, but I just got DUMPED on at Cedar Lk Rd and Penn.

[El-Rock]

so everything is still closed out there???

[Wheels]

so everything is still closed out there???

Looks that way....

[El-Rock]

yeah ok...now it's finally POURING here at University and 280...

UGH... RAIN RAIN GO AWAY!

[stoneage]

I'm sure that some people went out and rode the trail after our warnings, but we have to be patient. It is worth the wait. I met a friend (Terry L) as I was assessing the trail earlier and asked him to check the north loop, as he had his bike and was leaving the south loop because it was damp. He got over to the north loop and it poured on him as he got to the entrance. This was 5 minutes before I got hit on Hiway 100. He called when he got home and said that from what he saw it MIGHT be rideable tomorrow IF we don't get anymore rain tonight. We have a pretty good handle on the trail condition, so please trust us on our assessments. I have been accused of being too liberal (go figure!?), so we will get you on the trail ASAP. Okey Dokey?
Coming this way, damn it!!!!

[El-Rock]

bill-
people are dying over in iraq and you're making fun.... hahaha...
so not funny

[Wheels]

Erik,

Bill's avitar is mocking the fact that that people were tortured in the name of freedom, not supporting it.

I don't think he we was chastising you, it's just that you posted a half dozen posts of the same question yesterday - maybe take it back a click man.

[El-Rock]

I posted half a dozen of the same question because I wanted to to be clear on riding...

If people want to be pricks on here..then maybe I'll stop checking and just start riding whenever I want. What are you gonna post my picture on your website! oh no!! I'm so scared!

[Wheels]

You're getting riled up Erik - everyone was telling you the same thing those 6 times - that things were closed, but we were trying to confirm for you.

We were doing our best to get someone on site to confirm, which we did - two different people both with the same conclusion - too wet. You almost seemed argumentative about the results of that, then eventually agreed once it was raining in your neighborhood as well.

Just take it easy, nobody is slighting you - but if you're not sure about if the trails are open check the Trail Conditions page. That's the place where we post whether things are open or not.

[El-Rock]

ok......................

[devo kenivel]

do you know if theo will be opened today....???????

[El-Rock]

I hope. I pray.

[mara]

It was so wet in places last night that I could not even step on the trail without damaging it. ( On an up note, I got to perfect my Tarzan, tree swinging act. ) Hope for the best, but make contingency plans.

[stoneage]

If people want to be pricks on here..
That certainly isn't how I wanted to come across. I take time out of my day to check the trail because I have a lot of equity in it (Hundreds and hundreds of hours to be inexact) and want riders to know when it is appropriate to ride. Please come out and help on Wednesdays at 5, as sense of ownership goes a long way in explaining where we are coming from.:)

[manual63]

Erik and Devon, we appreciate you asking if the trails are open. I made another thread that might help explain why it is so crucial riders stay off the trails when they are wet, damp, or even soft (like in the spring).

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16859

Please check it out. Thanks again for not riding wet trails.

[FormerFarmKing]

Has anyone actually seen today's trail conditions with their own eyes? A few of us want to ride Wirth, but won't make the drive if it is absolutely, positively too wet. We'll just go to Battle Creek, which will be mint with that sandy soil.

[manual63]

Has anyone actually seen today's trail conditions with their own eyes?

There were a lot of really wet spots last night. If we don't get any rain today, it should be okay to ride late this afternoon. The problem is that a lot of people rode when it was wet and caused the trail to be cupped in many places. So now it is taking a longer time to dry out than usual. This is frustrating because normally, the trail would be ready to ride by now.

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16859

This thread shows what happens when people ride wet trails and shows why they are taking longer than usual to dry out. Thanks for asking.

[FormerFarmKing]

Thanks...I understand the IMBA philosophy of trailbuilding.

[El-Rock]

so has anyone been out there today to see if they trails are better?

it's sunny and windy...seem like a good combo

[manual63]

so has anyone been out there today to see if they trails are better?

it's sunny and windy...seem like a good combo

This is a team effort. You have Minneapolis as your location. That's closer than most of us. We stated when not to ride the trails. If you want, go check them out and let us know. Basically, if your tires are leaving treadmarks, they are too wet and the treadmarks will cause problems. If there are only 1 or 2 spots with this problem, no biggie, but last night we walked 1/2 the trail and I had almost 30 locations that need to be fixed listed. That's a lot of work for us tomorrow and we probably will not get to all the spots.

Make your best judgement and help out, rather than asking over and over. It would be really appreciated.....thank you.

[manual63]

Thanks...I understand the IMBA philosophy of trailbuilding.

It's great that you do, but not everyone does and I don't know who knows this stuff and who doesn't. Our goal now is to get as many people as we can to know and understand the IMBA standards. It may get annoying and redundant, but so does people riding wet trails and damaging them.

[Ishmail]

Is part of being a trail advocate actually annoying the entire mountain bike community. If so, you're doing a good job, Shad. I realize you have to spread the word to the lowest common denominator (i.e. IMBA trail building standards, fundamental riding techniques, etc.), but do you have to take such a condescending tone? I realize all the hard work that goes into our fine trail systems and we're all frustrated with current trail conditions, but c'mon. People are just trying to be responsible about checking conditions. That's what we want isn't it?

[El-Rock]

ok I'm gonna check the trails out after work...not ride them if they are bad...if they are good and not rutted out and getting damaged I'm going to ride them

[El-Rock]

Is part of being a trail advocate actually annoying the entire mountain bike community. If so, you're doing a good job, Shad. I realize you have to spread the word to the lowest common denominator (i.e. IMBA trail building standards, fundamental riding techniques, etc.), but do you have to take such a condescending tone? I realize all the hard work that goes into our fine trail systems and we're all frustrated with current trail conditions, but c'mon. People are just trying to be responsible about checking conditions. That's what we want isn't it?

exactly!

I'm just asking...because I want to respect the trails and trail builders... don't want me to ask...update the trail conditions more regularly....

[mara]

ok I'm gonna check the trails out after work...not ride them if they are bad...if they are good and not rutted out and getting damaged I'm going to ride them

Please post up what you find.

Even if the trail is mostly ridable, you may want to skip the entire "white pine flyer" section -- it was a gigantic mud pit yesterday and probably needs the most extra time to dry out.

[mara]

update the trail conditions more regularly....

We do update the trail conditions whenever they change. We have not, historically, posted up that yes, the trail is still wet. If it would help . . . :p

[manual63]

but do you have to take such a condescending tone?

I don't intend to do this. Maybe it's just the frustration of having to feel like we have to repeat ourselves all the time.

Everyone must do their part. We all love and ride the trails and it's in all of our best interest to be responsible and take good care of the them. Board members and trailworkers are not the only ones that can do this....anyone can. If you are signed up to post on these forums, you have to ability to post trial conditions here and on the home page.

The more help we can get the better.

[stefan]

You folks need to remember that almost everyone involved on any level with MORC is doing so voluntarily. It's not as if people are being paid to go watch the trail and let you know when it's OK.

Don't like it? Join MORC to help support the cost of building the bike trails and community, or do something to help fix your problem. Complaining to people who do it out of their own good will and spare time doesn't solve anything.

[stoneage]

Has anyone actually seen today's trail conditions with their own eyes? A few of us want to ride Wirth, but won't make the drive if it is absolutely, positively too wet. We'll just go to Battle Creek, which will be mint with that sandy soil.
I wouldn't go too quick.....

[manual63]

Aarrrgghh!! The rain just doesn't want to stop!! I want to ride. Oh well......the skatepark is indoors....:)

[devo kenivel]

shad, thanks for your response. there is nothing that i hate more than seeing people ride the trails when they are too wet. i just figured on the off chance with the warmer weather and sun (which i almost forgot what it looked like) that theo would be open. oh well, i too can wait.....

[manual63]

For those of you who have not seen the damage done this past weekend, here it goes. Maybe you can see why we are making such a big deal about this. Hope to see some of those that did this, this coming Wednesday. Trailwork starts at 5:00....meet at Par 3 Lot.....:)

I posted these pics on behalf of the Trail Diva who came up with the idea of taking these pictures and posting them.

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/518/TheoMuddyTrail3.jpg

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/518/TheoMuddyRuts4.jpg

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/518/TheoMuddyRuts3.jpg

[Ish]

No wonder you guys are so worked up.

[soupboy]

I rode parts of Wirth at 10am today. The Glenwood connector was fine save the always soggy flatland portion at the north entrance/exit.

I stopped frequently to inspect the trail. The initial up to the bike path was fine. I rode the first section from the GC to the first double track exit and decided to punt. The trail was pretty stout and I wasn't leaving tire prints but I could tell the further I went into better shaded or north facing spots that it would only get worse.

I expected it to improve quickly this afternoon given the sun and wind this AM but it looks like it rained though and now I'm in freakin' Wichita:cool:. If anyone needs religious paraphenelia let me know...

Use your judgement. If you've got any common sense, let alone any experience MTBing, it should be pretty obvious when the trails should be left alone.

Also, since I'm out of town I'd appreciate it if everyone refrained from riding until I return.:fool:

[NewTicker]

Also, since I'm out of town I'd appreciate it if everyone refrained from riding until I return.:fool:[/QUOTE]

You'll be back tomorrow...RIGHT!?

[Matt H]

I'll put up with (almost) any abuse on this forum if it means that I can simply check trail conditions here, rather than having to drive 40 minutes round-trip to find out for myself. :)

THANK YOU to those who post conditions, and also to those who maintain the trails.

For my part...looks like I'm back on the trainer in the garage for another night. Sigh....

[Tetreves]

I stopped at the trailhead about 5:30 and it was still pretty damp. I didn't check the whole trail, just a few feet into the north end of the south loop. But if it's damp there, then I'd be willing to bet the whole trail is damp or worse.

I've been stuck inside for the past week, so I havn't had my rain gauge out. :p

I rode the paved trails around Cedar instead.

[Wheels]

For those of you who have not seen the damage done this past weekend, here it goes. Maybe you can see why we are making such a big deal about this. Hope to see some of those that did this, this coming Wednesday. Trailwork starts at 5:00....meet at Par 3 Lot.....:)

I posted these pics on behalf of the Trail Diva who came up with the idea of taking these pictures and posting them.

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/518/TheoMuddyRuts4.jpg


So this is someone's idea of trail maintenance? A couple of boards over the mud holes? I know that one's not in the IMBA manual, but if that's the kind of trail you want to ride.... jeez.

Thanks for posting Shad.

[flombe]

So this is someone's idea of trail maintenance? A couple of boards over the mud holes? I know that one's not in the IMBA manual, but if that's the kind of trail you want to ride.... jeez.

Thanks for posting Shad.

Doesn't look too good. I did get to ride the boards last Thursday and I envisioned a log ride or skinny to cross this mud pit!

[Wheels]

Well let's make some good out of this, a little lesson on what MOCA workers will do to make sure that this spot drains properly by doing a slight realignment.

Take a look at the pic.

We'll first place two new pin rocks to better control flow, and keep riders from cutting up higher on the bank.

Then, we'll make the Grade Reversal more pronounced, dropping the trail 6-8" in level, and move it out 12" to the left.

This will allow the water to flow across the trail and allow this area to drain properly. The track will always have a 5 degree out-slope.

This project will take a crew of 4 workers 2-3 hours - or one night session to complete.

http://www.mocatrails.com/files/Photos/TheoMuddyTrail3.jpg

[flombe]

Sweet graphic! It is cool to see what the trail designer/worker sees when assessing this type of problem and how they develop a solution.

[El-Rock]

I went out there last night and saw a groupo of about 6 people riding the trails...in my opine they were too wet. I asked them about the board and they told me it was up to their disgression...lame...especially lame since they just rode right over the snow fences... real cool... I hope these wanks didn't ruin the trial for real riding today.

[bikeoutback]

I went out there last night and saw a groupo of about 6 people riding the trails...in my opine they were too wet. I asked them about the board and they told me it was up to their disgression...lame...especially lame since they just rode right over the snow fences... real cool... I hope these wanks didn't ruin the trial for real riding today.

Up to who's disgression? Very simple, Fences mean closed.

[soupboy]

Up to who's disgression? Very simple, Fences mean closed.

WTF is disgression? Is that the opposite of aggression?

K'mon, a liddle basyk inglesh wood bee nyce.

[nord0306]

Trail work tonight 5pm!

[Wheels]

OK - just a friendly reminder that this is the trail conditions page. Let's try to keep the posts on this page strictly related to current conditions so those looking for current information can reach it quickly.

[nord0306]

I went out there last night and saw a groupo of about 6 people riding the trails...in my opine they were too wet. I asked them about the board and they told me it was up to their disgression...lame...especially lame since they just rode right over the snow fences... real cool... I hope these wanks didn't ruin the trial for real riding today.

This is why we need cameras. Did you recognize any of them? Were they wearing any distinctive Jersey's?

[El-Rock]

yes I agree...but there were 6 of them and 1 of me...what was I to do? I didn't have a camera... they were such wanks that they rode right over the fence right in front of me...lame lame lame...

So a guy here suggested that we need to get a park dept. person out there the day that the trails are closed...I really think the only way that people aren't going to ride the wet trails is to give them tickets for riding the wet trails...if you got a ticket for $100 you wouldn't ride the wet trails again... Anyone know what this would cost?

Also...I have a dog and at local TC dog parks people have to pay a yearly fee to use the off-leash parks...why doesn't MORC and the Park's department do a monthly or yearly fee to use the trails...then this would pay for more tools, pay the park dept to patrol out there and in general make people respect the trails more...

thoughts?

[El-Rock]

sorry Shawn...I had already written the post before I saw your message...I'll post it in another section...

[Wheels]

yes I agree...but there were 6 of them and 1 of me...what was I to do? I didn't have a camera... they were such wanks that they rode right over the fence right in front of me...lame lame lame...

So a guy here suggested that we need to get a park dept. person out there the day that the trails are closed...I really think the only way that people aren't going to ride the wet trails is to give them tickets for riding the wet trails...if you got a ticket for $100 you wouldn't ride the wet trails again... Anyone know what this would cost?

Also...I have a dog and at local TC dog parks people have to pay a yearly fee to use the off-leash parks...why doesn't MORC and the Park's department do a monthly or yearly fee to use the trails...then this would pay for more tools, pay the park dept to patrol out there and in general make people respect the trails more...

thoughts?

We don't have fees because we're self-sustaining, the dog park group fell apart immediately after the dog parks opened - leaving the city with $300,000 a year in costs to cover.

We cost the city almost nothing, thus - they love us!

[El-Rock]

ok...so we can't get park officals out there to give tickets on wet days?

[Wheels]

Please take this discussion over to the Trail Related issues page.

[bikeoutback]

WTF is disgression? Is that the opposite of aggression?

K'mon, a liddle basyk inglesh wood bee nyce.

Sorry it was early in the morning and I just copied it from the post I was repling to, I didn't think it seemed correct but didn't feel like actually thinking about it.

[Wheels]

We're open again. Enjoy.

[soupboy]

TW was fantastic this AM. Found new fun - riding it backwards (yes, I yielded to those going the "right" way).

I hereby suggest reversing the main loop mid-summer or quarterly just for shiggles and a different perspective.

As flowy as it is now, it seemed more flowierer backwards.

[FSSS]

TW was fantastic this AM. Found new fun - riding it backwards (yes, I yielded to those going the "right" way).


Skidders??

[soupboy]

Skidders??

Didn't see any. I was tempted to lay trenches but refrained.

[stoneage]

Got a little water headed our way. Let's play it smart.

[col200]

Stefan and I rode out to Theo tonight and got there around 7:30 when it started to rain. We made it about 1/2 a mile before we thought the trail was getting too soft and got out. I'd say it's probably too wet right now.

[Sevadari]

Has anyone been out yet to see what the conditions are like today?

I'm assuming that since the rain didn't seem to be too bad last night and that we've had pretty nice weather today that things should be fine for riding later today? I just want to avoid a "longish" drive if I'm not going to be able to ride.

Thanks for those "locals" ;) that take the time to keep us posted!

[stefan]

Well, I'm fairly certain someone will beat me to it, but I'll post conditions after I go check it out around 5:30... Forecast looks good at least!


-Stefan

[iyoung]

Pretty close to perfect out there @ 3:30 today... :D

[Sevadari]

Just wondering if it's been raining at Theo Wirth today?

Although it looks threatening, we haven't had any rain yet and might avoid it altogther out here in in the Plymouth area.

Anybody been out riding recently or live in the area that can post up? I'm hoping to get out around 4 this afternoon.

Thanks!

[MickUZE]

The trails are awesome today! Its a little tacky everywhere so you can stick the turns! Looks like the rain missed so go out there and ride!

uze

[stoneage]

3 PM and the rain passed north of Theo. Should be OK; I haven't checked as I wasa over in St. Paul at the Spring Cup. Talk about different trails. They are all open and big ring at Salem, although I was stuck in my 2 to 1.

[Sevadari]

Made it out riding between 5pm and 7 with my wife and a friend from out of town and man was it nice!!!

No rain at all although right up until we took off from the parking lot it looked as though it might downpour any minute. Then, slowly the clouds started to part and it was perfectly sunny conditions! We didn't see another rider on the trail the whole time :D .

I imagine the threatening weather kept all the weekend riders away...or everyone was at the Spring Cup...either way, it was nice to be able to take it all in without having to trip over tons of people.

One issue though, soon after you enter the backside of the first loop there's a squishy rut that's developing in between a small downed tree that has been cut in half. It looks like you all are aware of it, but just wanted to pass the word along for those that are out there soon with tools. I imagine its going to dry out tomorrow if the sunny weather carries over.

Thanks for maintaining the trails!

[thebionicman]

The trail is in great shape. Nice work on trail work the past couple of weeks. Get out there today and take a new Cannondale bike out. They are at the Par 3 lot with the demo's.

[tkb608]

I found a tube and a co2 cartridge / inflator on the trail at about 1PM Saturday, Anyone missing them?

[MickUZE]

I road this morning and the trail is in great shape! Lots of wildlife on the trail. Ride before it rains.

uze

[El-Rock]

anyone check the trail yet today?

bit of rain...but maybe not enough to close it...? just checking...

[flombe]

Hit it at 7:15 tonight. Trail was in beautiful condition! Then, it POURED! Became slick in minutes followed by mud a few minutes later. Bailed out on second lap. My guess is it will be fine by late afternoon tomorrow.

[steef]

It seems like we may have had a bit more rain today than yesterday.

[El-Rock]

I rode one big lap at 6 yesterday... the big loop was slick but doable...

the small loop was perfection.

[sakmeister]

I rode both loops this afternoon. The big loop was more than slick in a few spots...walked the bike so I didn't cause any more ruts than are already present.

If the rain stays away, tomorrow would be the best bet.

[Brick]

Rode Theo today for the first time.....ever. NICE! First off road ride of the year as well. Nice flow, good challenge, I'll definately be back. Once I got over the death grip on the handlebar thing it was a good time. :jumpy:

Trail tacky to dry throughout, a couple of really small mud spots on the big loop, and one biggish one on skyline on the way out. If the weather holds, the trail should only get better.

Thanks to all who put this trail together!

Eric

[jzipfel]

SOme friends want to ride Theo tonight but I wasn't sure how much rain it got last night. Anyone have thoughts on open/closed?

Also, one of the buddies I took out to Theo a couple weeks ago and he liked it so much that he joined MORC the following week. He is like me, two kids that prevents trail work time so we support with $$.

Also, we will have another new guy there tonight so hopefully another MORC member.

[flombe]

Not much rain at my house. I would say it will be in great condition. Check back here to see if someone posts up a report.

Keep on recruiting members!

[stoneage]

Best guess is, it will be OK to ride. We didn't get much rain in the area. If I can get by the trail on my way home (2PM), I will post.
Go Ride!!!

[soupboy]

Absolutely gorgeous this evening. Probably my best ride at Theo...ever. :banana:

As for the Rick that was hammering, skidding, hammering, skidding get a clue. You know who you are. An unexpected skid here and there is forgivable. Skids at every corner means you're a retard, a menace, or, more likely, a retarded menace.:mad:

[stoneage]

a retarded menace....
....who can't ride a bike.
I was trying to catch the bozos that were skidding. They were ahead of me, I could hear them. I was on my road bike. I think I went by them at the last tabletop at the exit, but I wasn't sure, so I didn't say anything.:mad:
Saw jitterjepp, Simps, Per, Maxwell and a few others, BTW. Beautiful night for a ride.

[bike>>rider]

Also, one of the buddies I took out to Theo a couple weeks ago and he liked it so much that he joined MORC the following week. He is like me, two kids that prevents trail work time so we support with $$.

Also, we will have another new guy there tonight so hopefully another MORC member.

Nice job!!

[flombe]

Bone dry and fast!

[El-Rock]

it rained by wirth last night...only once...so hopefully it's dry today...it's hot enough...anyone been out there?

[fatbaldpop1]

it is fine. rode at 4pm. a few puddles in normal spots and the rest was dry.

[El-Rock]

yeah it was awesome yesterday

[pmschwei]

today= very nice i rode 2 laps and only saw 1 walker

[stoneage]

A shower just came through the area about 20 minutes ago.

[flombe]

Was bone dry with a fine layer of silt making for sketchy cornering. Beat the rain home and I assume the trail has now received 2" or more of rain in a short period of time. Should be great in the morning as long as we do not get an overnight soaking rain.

[flombe]

Rain continues! A good thing, but trails will likely be wet until tomorrow evening at best. Watch for updates on this thread.

[jag]

Just got home from theo. it is good. couple of small puddles, but nothing harmful. I wasn't planning on riding it till I got there. I was going for a ride around calhoun and back to my house but changed that when i saw it was ok. I did have to ride slow because of my healing arm though.

I saw the jump changed shape since last year, is it working good?

[flombe]

Cool! My rain guage reads 3 1/2" from last nights downpour. The trail is performing well!

[jitterjepp]

I took a peek about two hours ago. I think it should sit and dry out a bit. It also just rained here in Minneapolis since I got home from looking.

[soupboy]

'Twas beautiful this evening. Did four laps and never saw another person on the trail. Now, the dudes scampering about the bushes is another story...

[flombe]

Soaking showers this morning means the trail will be wet most of the day after being damp on Saturday. Maybe ridable this evening. Maybe.

Rode Saturday afternoon. A few greasy spots, a few small puddles. Did not notice any major damage from the tri-loppet riders in spite of the rain on Saturday morning.

[TrailPatrol]

Rode Saturday afternoon. A few greasy spots, a few small puddles. Did not notice any major damage from the tri-loppet riders in spite of the rain on Saturday morning.

The Tri-Loppet riders were diverted to the ski trails before the first canoe left the start line. The only riders who were on the singletrack were the MORC patrollers at the race, before we changed the course.

Ride safe,
Hans

[flombe]

The Tri-Loppet riders were diverted to the ski trails before the first canoe left the start line. The only riders who were on the singletrack were the MORC patrollers at the race, before we changed the course.

Ride safe,
Hans

I thought that may have been the case as the trail was in good shape. Thanks for helping out!

[MickUZE]

Dose anyone no if the trails are open tonight.
I know it rained but here in Down Town it didn't rain a lot.
Just checking in.

Later
uze

[frogfacepierre]

i rode theo this morning and it was still a little damp and there was a few puddles. as long as it doesn't rain anymore the trail tomorrow midday should be dry.

[rideharder]

trail was dry when i rode at 5 pm

[El-Rock]

trails were awesome last night...PERFECT CONDITION!

[Thewavebb]

Did the trails see any rain?

[jag]

i am a few miles to the nw of the trail and the street and sidewalks are a little damp here still.

[stoneage]

It rained on Wirth, but I can't check it out. My daughter just had my second grandchild.:)

[Chug]

No this not related to trial conditions, but a big shout out to Grand Pa Billy!

[Aaroneous]

Conditions as of last night: dry and dusty.

But I had a great time anyhow. Hadn't been out on dirt in weeks, and it felt fabulous to work through some singletrack again. I think I'm finally starting to get a handle on the ol' 29er, cuz she and I were flowing the turns like never before.
Might have to take her out again tonight... :D

[Wheels]

Be careful on the jump in Conundrum, the sink holes are opening up and it's a bit dangerous.

A crew is heading out to do an emergency repair in the morning.

[mara]

A crew is heading out to do an emergency repair in the morning.

Repairs are completed. However, this is a somewhat unstable area, so please post up if you see any of the sink holes in the area trying to sneak on to the trail.

Check out the gigantic mushroom cluster by the jump!

[manual63]

Check out the gigantic mushroom cluster by the jump!

This morning those mushrooms were rotting away and a ton of little bug were flying around them. They didn't look like that last evening.

[manual63]

A slight change in the jump after the downhill in the north loop. The lip had to be taken down some. This is good for less experienced jumpers, but not so good for the guys, like myself, who like to go fast and launch it. When I first tested the jump after I filled the sink hole, I cleared the entire landing and landed on the flat at the bottom. You do not need to have a ton of speed to clear this thing. To slow the faster guys down, I put in a very small roller before the table. I tested it again and can start from a stop at the top of the hill and roll down without pedaling, pump the roller, and clear the table, landing perfectly on the downside. We might add something else on the hill to slow riders down some more, not sure what we will add yet. So pay attention when coming up to this section....it might have more changes soon.

The idea of just leveling the table entirely was there, but we wanted to keep this area fun. If anyone sees any new sink holes develop, please post up right away. If you post here, we (MOCA) will find out right away and get someone out there to fix it. Thank you.

[Kosk]

start from a stop at the top of the hill and roll down without pedaling
So what about the riders that just continue to roll with their momentum out of WPF, bump over the rocks and then send it off the piece of rock placed at the top off the roll over on the hill? Are you saying you are going to add obstacles in the landing zone (on the downhill slope) and take away this step down feature??

That would be a sad thing to see. Why choke out that flow?

Honestly, if something has to be done with this jump, lets get rid of it. If you are a person that boosts of that little peice of rock, you currently have to get on the brakes pretty good to hit the jump safely without flying past the landing and piling up in the flats. It kinda reminds me of the little dub at Leb that Adam reworked. It's just too small for the speed the terrain in that section lends.

Why not create an A and B line up on top the hill after the armored rock section. Take the jump out and replace it with one at the top of the hill, set back a wheel base or so from the knuckle where the rock is currently at, and then leave that rock where it is. Then place a two linked berms at the bottom of the hill where the trail turns left and then right. The face of the hill itself would be devoid of features, and act as a natural landing zone for the people that choose to jump off either line. To me it makes more sense. Why try to build up a jump AND a landing, when you could just build up a jump and use the hill has the landing. You've already got a slight left hander leading into it with a armored rock section to moderate speed, preventing someone from totally blowing off the jump and landing way down in the bottom.

This setup would then provide three options after coming around the left hander and over the armored section:

1. Roll the whole thing
2. Bunny Hop off the current rock slab that is there,
3. Take a line just to the right where you can get some nice air.

The berms in the left-right corner combo at the bottom of the hill would then also elimate the need to brake hard on the face of the hill, and also preserve, if not add, flow. Part of the reason the landing of the current jump deteriorated was because riders have to get on the brakes right away to make it around the impending left turn.

What's with the constant desire to remove flow from our trails?

[manual63]

What's with the constant desire to remove flow from our trails?
There is no constant desire to remove flow. I want flow as bad as you do. When section 6 gets done, with your help I hope, we will have some good flow, jumps and just plain fun sections. When we can start from scratch and design a trail, it's a lot easier to design it with good flow from the start.

The fix I made is what I call a quick fix. There was a sink hole and the lip had to be taken down because it was 1/2 erroded away. With the kick gone at the top of the lip, it sends riders out, instead of up. I added the roller to help control speed. Unless we had a dump truck come in and dump a load of good solid black dirt, there is not much more we can do with this area. It's not the workers who don't want to build big fun flowing stuff, it's the limitations of what we have to work with.

I am all for improving this area and also making the new Section 6 advanced and totally awesome. It's going to take some time and having people like yourself help out is great.

[Kosk]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1108307/six.JPG

[gopherhockey]

What's with the constant desire to remove flow from our trails?

I don't see this as being a problem anywhere either.

[manual63]

I don't see this as being a problem anywhere either.
Oh....let me explain a bit. It is a problem when we are talking about flow like Pete is talking about.

I will explain and keep in mind, this is a learning process we are all in, so don't take offense to any examples, because they are going to be Leb examples....:) Leb trailbuilders and designers do an excellent job on those trails.....so this is not a diss on them. Actually, all trailbuilders and designers do an excellent job. This is just one example for one riding style so you can understand what Pete means about flow. If it's not what the trail designers intended....no big deal.

Flow is where you can ride the trail and swoop through turns, over jumps, and through trees or whatever, without having to jam on the brakes or make drastic measures to stay on the trail. It also means there are few super rough sections. One of the reasons Leb has some braking bumps on the dream trail is because it has a couple of areas that don't flow well....which Pete brought up in a different thread recently. The log in the trail is a good example. Most riders come flying down the hill at their max speed and around a corner....then see a log in the trail. In order for them to slow down for the log, they jam on the brakes and skid. Many riders don't use the front brakes properly....so that increases the skidding issue. But if the log was not there, a rider could maintain their speed and keep going without braking. The turn after the log might have to be bermed up a bit more, but otherwise....good to go. This is where flow is cut off. I am sure the log was put there to slow riders down through this section and into the turn. There is this nice fun downhill and then suddenly you have to slam on the brakes, slow way down, bounce over a log, and then most likely start pedaling again.....not nearly as fun.

In the case of the table at Theo, it lacks flow too. Pete wants riders to be able to so call, rail this section at good speed. The top of the hill is a good place to build up a launch and good riders can fly big and high if they want. But if their landing in impeded by anything, like rollers or they have to slow way down to take the table, it ruins the flow. I would like to have the table big enough so that good riders could hit it at full speed and not land flat bottom, that is the issue I have. I also don't want to take it out...because I like it and I heard woooo....hoooos when riders go off of it.

I understand what Pete is talking about when he talks about flow. In BMX, I knew tracks that had good flow and there were others that didn't. Some tracks had small little rollers, or whoops as we called them, that made you slow way down or they would buck you off of your bike. Good BMX tracks had big huge smooth rollers and jumps, so riders can take them at a fast speed and still maintain good control. Big berms also helpes. Little tight corners were not as fun.

Keep in mind, we are not talking all typical XC singletrack should be open fast and not tight with technical features. We are mostly talking about the downhill or faster sections of trail that need to have better flow. Since not many of us have much experience building downhill trail, we are still in a learning process. I think a lot of things have been learned from the dream trail at Leb. We will hopefully have a similar section like it in our new Section 6 at Theo. I know Murphy will have some sections like this too. In the IMBA manual, it describes how to make a trail with good flow. The dream trail is the best we have right now and I love it. It only has a few quirks, but it is still one heck of a good and fun trail to ride!

Sorry, but Whistler screwed me up for good.....:)

[gopherhockey]

The key word is learning... and I think we are all striving to improve things. Flow can be fast or slow - I think there are some that think flow=fast and any attempt to slow is wrong. Sometimes our decisions are right, sometimes wrong... but to say in general that we all want to remove the flow of trails is not the right choice of words and upsets me.

In your example, the log was placed by someone with more knowledge of trailbuidling than me. It was debated, but we knew we had to SLOW things down somewhere. Yes, it created a problem before it and so we learned, but berming up the trail and speeding it up is not always the answer to the concept of "flow". IMHO we made the trail fun and fast, but too fast to sustain itself with our traffic. We tried to get down the initial hill so we could climb the last and maximize distance. The real flow would have been to stay midpoint with a series of undulations like we have in the rollercoaster section of XX. If we were to go back and do that now people would cry like crazy. One of the biggest mistakes people make is not paying attention to the level of riders that certain areas are built for as well.

We all have a lot to learn for sure.. but removing flow is not the goal and never has been. Changing the flow to improve it overall is a better way to say it, and that is sometimes necessary - be it faster or slower.

This should probably have gone into a separate thread. Back to trail conditions and we can discuss this elsewhere.

[stoneage]

Check out the gigantic mushroom cluster by the jump!
You don't even need eyes!!!:sick:

[steef]

I understand what Pete is talking about when he talks about flow. In BMX, I knew tracks that had good flow and there were others that didn't. Some tracks had small little rollers, or whoops as we called them, that made you slow way down or they would buck you off of your bike. Good BMX tracks had big huge smooth rollers and jumps, so riders can take them at a fast speed and still maintain good control. Big berms also helpes. Little tight corners were not as fun.

Big Rollers from the Dig Fest:
http://www2.bitstream.net/~nakroach/image/bikes/dig/dig2.jpg

They had a nice flow to them. :D

[stoneage]

Rain finally!! Can't tell if it is going to pass or keep building. I will try to get over a little later and get a report in. It might have just soaked in.

[soupboy]

I've just been getting bursts at 394/LA. I hope we get a nice sustained rain.

Sad, but I'm worried more about my sod then the trails. :cool:

[stoneage]

Looks like more coming. This is at 9:19.

[nigel]

It needs to get HOT and stop raining so i can go to Theo after work!

[stoneage]

It needs to get HOT and stop raining so i can go to Theo after work!
It may be in the cards!!!

[nigel]

It may be in the cards!!!

I knew there was a reason i dont play cards! This blows.

[stoneage]

I knew there was a reason i dont play cards! This blows.
Patience! I'm going to check in awhile and see if it was all absorbed. I would worry more about the lightning than the rain at this point. It was like bombs around Theo a few minutes ago. That red spot is just west of Wirth.

[stoneage]

As soon as this line passes, I'm going to head out and look, unless more pop up.

[stoneage]

Just finished two assessment laps at Wirth at about a 22-23 minute pace (full laps). The usual wet spots, but very rideable. Another rider entered between my laps. Barely visible footprints in the wettest section of 'Flyer'. Worst section was the connecting road. Removed deadfall from trail just before the gully and skinny. Tree down at the exit of the North loop. Yanked it down and opened up a hole, but the vegetation was too wet to go in and pull it completely away. If it doesn't rain anymore or sprinkles I will be going out later for more laps. Go ride!!!

[stoneage]

Four more laps. Still a little damp in the usual places, but perfect in most. Timed the third lap. 20:37 55 to 55. Dabbed on the rock uphill. Rode with Brower and Trevor to the other side to finish up. Trevor has a sweet 29'r that has me rethinking the concept. Not really, Soupboy!! But it's a great idea. Eric over at PG is inserting a curved plate in the seat tube (kinda like a zoot TT bike) that brings the rear tire in closer. Almost looks normal.
Groovy (http://www.peacockgroove.com/)

[mara]

Woo! Rain!

Who would have thought it would be so exciting to not be able to ride. The trails are going to be beautiful after this soaks in. . .

[Pete Hamer]

Has anyone been to Theo today? I'm guessing it's dry but I want to make sure. Thanks

[flombe]

Have not been over there, but I had less than 1/2" of rain at my house. I assume it is in good shape.

[Kosk]

I roll thru the general area on my way to and from work everyday. Some of the "spots" that I use as a barometer were still a little damp this morning. I'd imagine that the MTB trails will be good to go in the next couple of hours.

[stoneage]

Got ready to post a Monday night ride and then we got a 10 minute dump. Looks like more on the way.

[jitterjepp]

I was just working in Robbinsdale and left because of the rain. I drove right by Glenwood and Theodore Wirth. It was raining pretty good. I think its safe to say the trail is soaked right now.

[syntaxjunkie]

...and we've got hail in downtown.

[r32657]

Any word on how the trail looks today?

[dwold]

A tree is down in the first few sections - Tried to move it, but it'll take a few dudes...
Otherwise, tacky and nice...

[manual63]

A tree is down in the first few sections - Tried to move it, but it'll take a few dudes...
Otherwise, tacky and nice...

Any help on location so we can take care of this? Thanks for posting up about this.

[JLS]

The land manager has been called and there should be a crew out there today to clean it up.

[JLS]

I was just informed the tree has been cleared - go ride

[stoneage]

The few riders that are out there are sweating so much, that the trail is in perfect riding condition. ;)

[jitterjepp]

Gee wiz Bill it's not even 100 degrees. Only 96 right now. Time to go test the new chain rings!

[stoneage]

Look at the weekend. Cripes!!!

[stoneage]

Way more nudists than riders. Both genders at least. ;)
Did 4 complete laps including the zone 8 extra loop twice. Not bad shape over there. The log ride is still very solid. The beach was very busy. The main trail is in good shape. Not as dusty as you would expect, considering the weather. Saw around a dozen or so riders, including this n00b with his girl. He had on full face ski goggles, but no helmet. I told him to watch out that his goggles didn't fog up so he couldn't see, which would cause him to crash and hit his head. He didn't get it.:eyeroll: