Trail Conditions in Detail - Theodore Wirth [Archive] - Page 2 - Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists Discussion Forums

flombe

02-27-2005, 11:40 PM

I rode today. I was dying to get out and see what the conditons are at Theo as the window of opprotunity to ride before the start of the spring thaw will be closing soon. Well, I entered at Hwy 55 and Theo Wirth Pkwy and fought my way up the entry climb with a combination of slipping off the trail, hike-a-bike, slip off the trail, repeat. I made it to the ravine at the end of section 3a (http://www.mocatrails.org/files/Maps/Work%20Zones/New%20Zone%20Map.jpg) and (http://www.mocatrails.org/files/Maps/Work%20Zones/New%20Zone%20Map.jpg)%20and) decided that I was not having much fun going 2 MPH and fought my way back out. I didn't cross the tracks, so I am not sure what the conditions are in the main part of the system.

What I found in 3a was snow covered ice that has had some snowshoe traffic, a lot of deer traffic and tire tracks of one or two other riders. My Nokian Extremes (studded) were of no help under these conditions. Downright frustrating but about what I expected. The combo of snow on ice makes climbing impossible at the slow speeds caued by the snow cover. Also was misled by the deer onto to sections of the old trail and ended up bushwhacking to the new trail! It was a laughable attempt. So, time to strap on the skis!

Kosk

03-08-2005, 02:09 PM

Just wondering if anybody knows how clear the trails are right now? If the snow and ice has melted off and it is just frozen dirt I'd like to go hit it up. Not sure since the woods always takes longer to melt out. Anybody have and estimate as to how much of the trail is clear of ice and snow? I'm guessing it might still be pretty packed & icy.....

If the trail is clear there might be a couple good days here in the next two weeks where it is sunny and mid 20s degrees, perfect for riding frozen dirt. Obviuosly if its up around freezing or higher, it's going to be a no go.

Bueller?

fatbaldpop1

03-08-2005, 02:17 PM

I walked over and looked at them yesterday. There is a lot of glare ice, even with Studded tires I would be suspect. Oh, and a couple of yahoos obviously rode on Saturday and created havoc where there would be smooth frozen dirt.

I only was on the entrance portion next to Animal Shelter. I did not make it to primary trails.

If you go and think it is ridable with Studs let us know

Kosk

03-08-2005, 03:15 PM

Naw, sounds like it's still packed with ice then. I won't be heading over unless I know it's dry forzen dirt. All I have is a rigid SS w/ 1.5" road tires and a rear brake. No studded tires here.

quinnsoccer27

03-08-2005, 09:44 PM

i biked over to the trails today, and the condicions are not very ridable, its either slipery ice or thick mud, you might be able to get by with studed but i didnt have them and i was sliping all over the place, i ended up walking the mudy parts and falling on the slipry parts

flombe

03-08-2005, 10:47 PM

Parts are fine. The rest is treacherous! I rode tonight starting at the non-sanctioned trail that heads north from Glenwood and fell in the first 200 yards. I lost traction on the first climb, unclipped, put a foot down and the rest of me immediately hit the ice. I forgot that only my tires had studs! Brilliant! Try walking up an icy hill with shoe covers. I did. Made it with the help of the trees and gingerly rode over ice covered trail to find some sweet frozen dirt, crossed a log pile to find ice on the other side and executed a perfect superman endo with a spread eagle flat landing! Nice. Proceeded to make my way across Theo Pkwy and the trail was alright. Crossed Hwy 55 and entered the official trail to find more ice and this was not at all helpful on the off-camber climb in. Fell again. Twice. Made it to the turn at the top and lost traction in the middle of a sea of ice. I could not even walk I was laughing so hard. Every inch of trail and woods was covered in ice. Pulled myself along on trees and dragged my bike to a flat spot and started riding again back to 55. Took the paved trail to the service road gate and the service road was pretty fast (with studs) and found that the south facing trails were pretty fast only to find the north facing are ice covered. Any muddy areas had frozen over. It was like riding on eggshells and sounded like it too. Enough. Turned around and rode back out. I think it is time to send the bike to the shop for upgrades and a tune-up and wait for the trails to thaw and dry out. Now, I will have to turn to running. Drag!

As for the parts of the trail that got thrashed over the weekend the ruts I saw were limited to a few areas although I did not complete the loop. Oh yeah, the ruts are back too!

Kosk

03-08-2005, 11:06 PM

Thanks for the update Eric. Sounds like it will only be good if we get a good stretch of warm sunny weather to melt the ice and then a couple days of cold weather to freeze things back up. May just have to wait until May....out.

Wheels

03-09-2005, 12:04 AM

OK - I haven't been out there, but let's say the trials are unofficially "officially closed".

Like I have any say :zzz: ... please stay off the trails for now.

flombe

03-09-2005, 12:35 AM

I was actually very lucky to escape without injury. I would say the trail has closed itself for now. Looking forward to riding when the trails dry out!

Whatsmymantra?

03-09-2005, 12:08 PM

Buck

03-09-2005, 12:13 PM

Went over to the trail on Saturday and was dissapointed to find another set of tracks from the rut maker. I'm guessing the tracks/ruts are made by some kid with a smallish dirt bike. What I'm afraid of is this person/kid will continue to make ruts during the thaw. Perhaps their muddy tire tracks will lead us to their home and we can return the favor by doing a few laps on their lawn. :D :D :D

You mean like a fifty??? Those little bastards are the bane of DJers....they totally destroy good jumps just to get a kick...I know of a few guys that have gotten so mad that they have taken years of their own work and plowed it cuz they were sic of little bastards and doing all the repairs. :mad: :mad: :mad: ... I say we beat him with a crank arm till he's bloody :hit: ...

L8R
Buck

Magic

03-09-2005, 12:36 PM

Ya, then we can cram a granny ring up his bum so he can't sit down. I like vigilantyism, the world would be such a better place.

Trevize1138

03-09-2005, 01:17 PM

You mean like a fifty??? Those little bastards are the bane of DJers....they totally destroy good jumps just to get a kick...I know of a few guys that have gotten so mad that they have taken years of their own work and plowed it cuz they were sic of little bastards and doing all the repairs. :mad: :mad: :mad: ... I say we beat him with a crank arm till he's bloody :hit: ...

L8R
Buck

Heh ... it'd be like in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back when they visit the homes of all the kids who dissed their movies on Blogs and beat the snot out of 'em :crazy:

Buck

03-09-2005, 01:28 PM

Heh ... it'd be like in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back when they visit the homes of all the kids who dissed their movies on Blogs and beat the snot out of 'em :crazy:

hahahaha, yeah I suppose I was alittle out of line, but they can take years of work at set it back so quick...I along with some friends got permission a few years a go to build some jumps on local farm land pretty much IN Plainview, and we had some kickass stuff going a big dirt 1/4 pipe, a little rythm section, and one HUGE table top. the farmer even came out with a tractor and helped us get things going...then some locals kids found them and took their quads and dirtbikes out there...not only did they destroy the jumps they also destroyed a bunch of crop...the farmer was pissed to say the least...next day it was gone...went and talked to the farmer, he said I know it's not your fault but I can't have quads and dirt bikes rippin' up my fields...never did find out who did it...know there are no jumps in Plainview, but with steeple chase doing stuff I expect to be in a bobcat buildin'*cough* tim *cough*!!! w00t!!! :D

L8R
Buck

flombe

03-09-2005, 02:38 PM

Went over to the trail on Saturday and was dissapointed to find another set of tracks from the rut maker. I'm guessing the tracks/ruts are made by some kid with a smallish dirt bike. What I'm afraid of is this person/kid will continue to make ruts during the thaw. Perhaps their muddy tire tracks will lead us to their home and we can return the favor by doing a few laps on their lawn. :D :D :D

The ruts were made last weekend by MTB'ers and witnessed by one of the trail builders. See the posts under the Leb trail titled something like "Are they finally getting it?" and you can get the details.

bigwheel

03-09-2005, 03:44 PM

FWIW, I just got back from an attempted lunch time ride at Salem Hills. The temp was 25 degrees, and it had pretty much stayed below freezing since Sunday. However, after I got off of the ice and onto the dirt, I noticed I was leaving a 1/2 inch rut, so I had to bail out and ride the roads.

I think that at this time of year, the sun is so powerful that it softens up the surface even when the temp is well below freezing. It might be okay early in the morning before the sun gets a good shot at it, but mid-day rides are probably going to have to wait another month or two.

Trevize1138

03-09-2005, 03:49 PM

I look at it this way: I'm staying off the trails until sometime in mid-April when places like Lebanon open up because then you'll really appreciate trail riding by then. Until such time, urban assault, baby! And, practice your non-clipless bunny hopping! :banana:

manual63

03-09-2005, 03:53 PM

Honestly, this is a good time for all of you to read up in the riding tips, ask questions and get dialed. Stay off the trails until they are ready and work on your skillset. Then when the trails are ready, you will be ready too. Urban is fun, especially if you get a group together.

Please be patient......don't ruin the trails for everyone else.

Wheels

03-09-2005, 04:32 PM

Whatsmymantra?

03-09-2005, 05:36 PM

The tire tracks I saw over the weekend look just like the first rut tracks and seemed to display the same level of skill riding the trails (none). In several places this person chose to skip a few of the turns and just bash a new trail. The tread pattern looked like a smooth round profile with V shaped grooves. The width was about double a normal tire.

I rode many parts of the trail early on Saturday and it was frozen except for a few places along the tracks, even walking the bike left marks so I left.
On Sunday I had a great ride busting through slushy snowfields on the bike trails. Wirth to Victory to Mississippi corridor, over the dam to Elm Creek, over to Three rivers trails, then south on Vicksburg to Schmidt lake road and back to Wirth on the streets. About 45 miles on the hardtail. Epic

Wheels

03-09-2005, 05:43 PM

The tire tracks I saw over the weekend look just like the first rut tracks and seemed to display the same level of skill riding the trails (none). In several places this person chose to skip a few of the turns and just bash a new trail. The tread pattern looked like a smooth round profile with V shaped grooves. The width was about double a normal tire.

Sounds like the tire tracks from the new Surly Prototype tire - if it's a bike that's busting trail - and not a motor bike - I know there are only a couple sets of those out there. Should be pretty easy to track down.

mara

03-09-2005, 06:30 PM

Ooh! If you find them, I know a girl who's pretty scary by herself, but when you give her a Pulaski . . . :D We could put the fear of trail fairies into them.

Whatsmymantra?

03-09-2005, 06:32 PM

Just did a quick google search and don't think it is the Surly prototype. I'd guess a motorcycle more than a mini-bike. When I was a kid most mini bikes had 10" wheels very square 5" wide tires with lots of nobbs The ruts in Wirth look more like a motorcycle street tires, smooth with V's cut in and no nobbs.

Trevize1138

03-10-2005, 10:27 AM

Sounds like the tire tracks from the new Surly Prototype tire - if it's a bike that's busting trail - and not a motor bike - I know there are only a couple sets of those out there. Should be pretty easy to track down.

I was there and found 3 1/2 day old scad left by the perp. It tasted like graham crackers ... :crazy:

I love all this tracking sense we have!

dave t

03-11-2005, 09:22 AM

...not only did they destroy the jumps they also destroyed a bunch of crop...the farmer was pissed to say the least...next day it was gone...went and talked to the farmer, he said I know it's not your fault but I can't have quads and dirt bikes rippin' up my fields...never did find out who did it...know there are no jumps in Plainview,

Buck, you should try to set something up at the MX track in plainview. I'v been out of the local motocross scene for a long time so I don't have any connections anymore but Verne was always pretty cool. It is hard clay and you would be sharing the track with sheep but there are plenty jumps and a bunch of drops where the track is cut into the hills and the longest man-made whoop section in MN motocross - at least it was 10 years ago. If he would let you ride, he might let you carve the sides of the jumps for bike style ramps.

Midway Recreation Park

-

MIDWAY RECREATION PARK
Midway Recreation Park runs on 40 acres of LuVerne Klassen’s dairy farm. At slightly over one mile in length, the track has a hardpack clay surface and moderate elevation. The track is best known for its Dirty Dozen whoop section. Nearest town: Kellogg.
Contact: (507) 534-3276

redwood

03-11-2005, 10:27 AM

sorry to hijack this thread and bring it back to trail conditions;). Rode this morning. the recent snow has annealed to what was glare ice, making a fairly grippy surface. Go get it!

Buck

03-11-2005, 11:53 AM

Buck, you should try to set something up at the MX track in plainview. I'v been out of the local motocross scene for a long time so I don't have any connections anymore but Verne was always pretty cool. It is hard clay and you would be sharing the track with sheep but there are plenty jumps and a bunch of drops where the track is cut into the hills and the longest man-made whoop section in MN motocross - at least it was 10 years ago. If he would let you ride, he might let you carve the sides of the jumps for bike style ramps.

Midway Recreation Park

-

MIDWAY RECREATION PARK
Midway Recreation Park runs on 40 acres of LuVerne Klassen’s dairy farm. At slightly over one mile in length, the track has a hardpack clay surface and moderate elevation. The track is best known for its Dirty Dozen whoop section. Nearest town: Kellogg.
Contact: (507) 534-3276

I actually know him...that is like 5 miles from my house...hmmm, I think they said no already, we tried to run some leads down out there, he had thought about then decided no I believe...BUT I'm sure I'll be able to build at Steeple Chase, which is only like 15 minutes from my front door, and I know people won't mess with my work cuz no else does that kinda of riding down here...yet...and there is always the super duper secret spot no one knows about...;)

L8R
Buck

dave t

03-11-2005, 01:48 PM

Back when I was racing, track access during events was pretty much a free for all, especially if you looked like you knew what you were doing. We rode Mt bikes around so we could check out the track and for fun. We couldn't get on the track but there was always old jumps and stuff that weren't in the track anymore.

So, if you wanted to check it out, you might go over there during a race, pay the spectator fee and then throw on your gear. Roll on the ground so you look like a MX'er and go out and pretend you are checking lines for your next moto!
Way in the far end of the track was the coolest FR potential and noone used to go all the way back there.

It might not work anymore but could be worth a shot. Maybe some new MORC smooth talkin' would get Vern to think it over again. If so, there wouldn't need to be much building 'cause it is already there.

dave t

03-11-2005, 01:55 PM

If it worked out, it could help draw trailworkers for Steeple. Work half a day on new trail then go over to the motocross track and do some drops and huge double jumps.

Buck

03-11-2005, 02:16 PM

Yeah maybe over spring break I'll check it out, I've seen the track but not in the last few years...I'm spread pretty thing right now...to much sh!t going on!!!! School, doctors, film work, transferring schools, spirit mtn sh!t...will see though, I'm always lookin' for some where to build! :cool: Thanks for the idea, I'll definitley keep it in mind! I often forget places like that, I know we had discussed buildin' a BMX track out there.

L8R
Buck

flombe

03-11-2005, 03:10 PM

sorry to hijack this thread and bring it back to trail conditions;). Rode this morning. the recent snow has annealed to what was glare ice, making a fairly grippy surface. Go get it!

Great news! I think I will try it tonight. Thanks for the update.

And, yeah, the MX/Steeple Chase is all good, but belongs in its own thread. We have to overthrow the hijackers and grab the controls...

Buck

03-11-2005, 03:12 PM

Great news! I think I will try it tonight. Thanks for the update.

And, yeah, the MX/Steeple Chase is all good, but belongs in its own thread. We have to overthrow the hijackers and grab the controls...

hahaha sorry man, I didn't change the subject....

L8R
Buck

PS: hell it snowing like a mo fo up here, I'm going sledding...

quinnsoccer27

03-12-2005, 02:47 PM

since we are talking about dirt jumps and this is the wirth forum, would it ever happen, after a while, that they would build some good dirt jumps in the valley in the middle of wirth, there were some, but they were small and there was only two, also by building the dirt jumps we could keep all the naked guys from hidding in the tall grass

Whatsmymantra?

03-12-2005, 09:48 PM

noise_is_life

03-12-2005, 10:14 PM

Thanks for the input Lars, it's good to have people out there that care.

Section 1 will be finished up this spring.

Yes, the direction will be clockwise (initially anyway), and yes it will be marked.

Section 3A was the only section that was not fully hand-built, we did in fact use a Dingo (kind of like a little walk behind bulldozer), we were getting crunched for time so it had to be done. I was also the final thing done last season, so it hasn't had any time to recover. It will look much different by the middle of this summer. Even the back-sides of the in-slope turns will grow up and become less obvious.

ALL of the trail at Leb was done with Dingo and it has recovered nicely over time.

Concerning the use of natural "deer paths". It may seem like a good idea, but is really un-sustainable as trail traffic increases, which it will because of the attention of the pilot project. In fact MOCA was formed to improve the problems with the "natural" trails.

thebionicman

03-12-2005, 10:20 PM

The snow angels crack me up, was that you Flombe?

The trails were mostly ridable but there is lots of ice just below the snow. I lost track of how many times I wiped out but did seem to have a special skill at always going down on my right side.

[QUOTE=Whatsmymantra?]The back forty (section 4) seemed the worst for ice especially on all those long traverses. Not to complain but it is a shame that we lost that fast downhill that used to be in that area.

The old trail was a fall line trail that was eroding. This was pretty apparent where it intersected the walking trail.

Some of the best traction (I'm studless) was down in section 6. Probably because of the lack of traffic during the winter.

Also what is with the other trail in section 1 ? I noticed the orange markers went away but you can see the route by the cut bushes and now people have been riding it.

This is going to be built this spring. I imagine if the weather works out we will be working on this within the next month.

As long as I'm ranting a little, will the trail be marked for direction some day? It seems obvious to me that the trails are clock wise.

In a word YES. The trail will run clock wise. The signage will be just like the ones that are used at Leb. We are just waiting for the main loop to be finished.

Here is another rant, in the old days a trail was kept alive by how many people/animals used the trail. This process made very natural trails. It seems to me that a trail like that would by virtue of it's low impact be an easy sell to the park system. Now lets look at the new trail that is being buillt in section 3A. It looks like a mini bull dozer was used to cut the new traverse and those banked corners (which I love) are hardly natural.

Again the old trail was fall line trail. One could argue that if someone hiked into the section and saw the erosion on the trail they would think that it looked very unnatural. You are right that there was a mini dozer used for this section. By the end of the summer once everything is grown back in, I am sure it will look pretty natural (as much as it could).

The point I'm trying to make is that these features are in a section of the park that is easy to get to on foot. For someone not familer with mountain biking that wants to see a trail that is what they see first. Is that what we want them to see? Just something to think about.

Someone will most likely flame me for not coming out and building the trails but I do contribute by picking up trash, clearing fallen branches and such. Work and other obligations however keep me from joining the trail building crew.

I love the trail and the work that all of you have done and hope to see more trails in other sections of the park in the future.

There has been a lot of compromise between the old trail and building the new trail up to IMBA specs. There has been a lot of disagreement, but I think the outcome is a great trail that we can all use LEGALLY.

I am sure everyone welcomes your comments, its nice to see someone do it in a positive manner.

If you wish to learn more about how a SUSTAINABLE trail is constructed you are welcome to come out and help once trail building starts. Along with that, the IMBA Trail School is the end of April.

Hope to see you out on the trails (on a bike or with a Pulaski).

thebionicman

03-12-2005, 10:21 PM

Pat you are to fast on that keyboard.:)

bigwheel

03-12-2005, 10:55 PM

Someone will most likely flame me for not coming out and building the trails but I do contribute by picking up trash, clearing fallen branches and such. Work and other obligations however keep me from joining the trail building crew.

No flame here. It's nice to have responsible people picking up trash and downed branches. This gives the rest of us a chance to get in a nice ride without continually stopping to fix stuff.

That said, if you are ever interested in doing some trail building, there are crews all over town, meeting most days of the week. You don't need to be there every week in order to participate. Just show up when you can. You also are not limited to working on your favorite trail. They all need help.

It's actually not a bad way to "kill" an evening. There also is a pride factor, when you ride a section that you helped build. Just don't get near Mara when she's wielding a polaski:fool:

BTW, there is a group riding Wirth tomorrow (Sunday) if you are interested in joining us.

flombe

03-14-2005, 01:01 AM

The snow angels crack me up, was that you Flombe?

Hey Lars! Nope, not me but I wish I would have been out there this weekend!

Trevize1138

03-21-2005, 01:03 PM

Just a note for those who might be new to the boards and don't know to scroll down for this info:

Theo Wirth trails are CLOSED to biking until they thaw and completely dry :). Please don't ride in the mud there as it ruins hours upon hours of hard work. Besides, riding in the mud is not "cool" dawg. I ain't trippin', "B". [/guidance_counselor]

noise_is_life

03-21-2005, 01:11 PM

Thanks for the reminder, Chris. I updated the trail conditions to reflect this as well.

Wheels

03-26-2005, 04:39 PM

** TRAILS ARE OFFICIALLY CLOSED FOR SPING THAW **

Hi All,

Just got back from posting the "TRAIL CLOSED" signs - but ran out. Just to be clear - All trails are closed until further notice by order of the Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board and the MOCA Board.

I know there has been some disagreement on the closing of the ridgeline trail in section 1, but I think the proof of what I have been saying about the section in question has become quite apparent with the thaw. As I walked the sections today, this was the worst of all the trail in the park. Even though it is south facing and gets a lot of sunlight - it's eroding down the hillside and holding too much water in the track with no way to direct the water off the trail.

On the other hand, there are portions of section 1 that we have plans to close that are holding up better than much of the new trail - so we need to make some decisions before we build new trail to replace it.

The MOCA Trail Committee will be evaluating the current conditions in the next week - decisions on how to proceed on issues like this, as well as others will be made at that time.

homebrewbiker

04-03-2005, 11:28 PM

Wheels

04-03-2005, 11:46 PM

** TRAILS ARE OFFICIALLY CLOSED FOR SPING THAW **
On the other hand, there are portions of section 1 that we have plans to close that are holding up better than much of the new trail - so we need to make some decisions before we build new trail to replace it.

My first post since last Fall. I hope I don't mess it up :)

How about just leaving the old trail?
Someone had to say it.

We walked this section today - and will be keeping the only section that is salvageable, I should have clarified a couple of things about the old trail I mentioned.

It's holding up better because it's had many years to pack, but it's cupped or follows too steep of a grade. This is the primary motivation behind replacing old trail. The sustainability is questionable, and the anticipation of much heavier traffic will create problems much sooner than it would have in the past when these trails were not as well-known.

Also, new trail is not holding up as well because it's still new. Give it some time - new trail never rides like two-year old trail, it's going to get better.

The solution we arrived at today to save one section of old trail will require a great deal of work - but we all agreed that it's worth it (I'm more skeptical than the rest of the Trail Committee - but I'm willing to give it a shot).

We never thought we'd end up closing as much of the old trail as we have, but having to close one section often dictated the closing of dependent trail. Just know that every effort has been made to save old trail. If we closed some of your favorite trail, we're sorry - but there were very good reasons to do so, and the decisions were labored over.

Trevize1138

04-04-2005, 10:24 AM

How about just leaving the old trail?
Someone had to say it.

:laugh:

Nice loaded/scripted question. You should have followed it up with: "Mr. Sheely, what would you say is your sexiest quality?"

:crazy:

Wheels

04-04-2005, 10:28 AM

:laugh:

Nice loaded/scripted question. You should have followed it up with: "Mr. Sheely, what would you say is your sexiest quality?"

:crazy:
Uhhh...Tolerance. :)

quinnsoccer27

04-07-2005, 06:39 PM

is wirth good to ride yet, we have had so many sunny days i would think it would be

noise_is_life

04-07-2005, 09:51 PM

is wirth good to ride yet, we have had so many sunny days i would think it would be

It was still really wet on Sunday, some areas were not completely thawed and some areas were flooded, so it will probably take at least another week before it is safe.

Please wait for the opening announcement, we are all eager to ride, but not at the expense of trashing a lot of hard work.

Thanks for being patient.

stoneage

04-07-2005, 09:53 PM

Pretty spongy yet. Some areas downright wet under the few leaves left. Looks good on top, but is not ready yet. Be patient and go help get the rest of the loops built for the grand opening. I think they are working Wednesdays at 5 and both days this weekend. Waiting is for the best.

noise_is_life

04-07-2005, 09:55 PM

Just a reminder to keep an eye on http://mocatrails.org for the latest information.

thebionicman

04-07-2005, 10:59 PM

is wirth good to ride yet, we have had so many sunny days i would think it would be

My 2 cents. Even the old parts of the trail are still muddy. While we were out last night working it was pretty evident that the trail isn't ready to be opened yet.

Thanks for asking first!

Wheels

04-07-2005, 11:40 PM

Trevize1138

04-08-2005, 10:09 AM

There is still frost in the ground, until it's out the water will keep coming to the top. We used Chris's bike to do a little testing the other night - and it gummed-up right away.

It's going to be pretty nice this weekend, but resist the temptation and PLEASE wait until we announce the opening.

Yeah, thanks for gunking up my bike, Shawn. On the ride home that night a piece of mud smacked me in the cheek :hit:.

Heh heh ... teach me for riding with my eyes open.

The mud definitely gums up your ride at Theo still. It's no Maah Daah Hey gumbo, but still pretty bad.

Trevize1138

04-08-2005, 10:20 AM

Read Jon's latest post urging people to get out and *walk* the trail this weekend or hang out at Lebanon to police the area and educate people:

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?p=112209#post112209

I think we should try to do the same thing for Theo this weekend and maybe even next. People will be working on the trail Saturday morning for sure, but the rest of the weekend we should try to have at least one MORC or MOCA member or friend out there walking the trail and watching for trail poachers.

We helped educate some poachers on Wednesday during trailwork, actually. Pete and Tom had a nice chat with 'em (I'm saying this as non-sarcastically as possible, they really were nice and polite!).

I might get the wife and the bulldog (heh heh ... intimidation!) out for a walk through Theo this weekend in the name of trail protection. :)

Whatsmymantra?

04-08-2005, 10:28 AM

Trevize1138

04-08-2005, 11:01 AM

Seems to me that somehow the opposite is actually true of leaves on the trail, but someone more knowledgeable than myself on here can fill in the gaps on why.

I do know that the hiking trails will feel more firm than the biking trails as they're simply older and more packed-in. The biking trails are brand spanking new so they're softer by definition. I believe that has more to do with the hard vs. soft feel of the two trails than whether they have leaves on them or not. The MTB trails should start hardening up nicely this year, though.

Aaroneous

04-08-2005, 11:22 AM

On the ride home that night a piece of mud smacked me in the cheek :hit:.

Serves ya right! When you bunnyhopped in front of me, I got blasted!

ANYWAY - back on topic - Whatsmymantra's leaf-leaving idea - Isn't the point of raking them off to keep the organic material from working into the dirt? Cuz organic dirt retains more water, right?

And just to re-re-re-reiterate: Trails are muddy, unfinished, and CLOSED.

Whatsmymantra?

04-08-2005, 11:51 AM

flombe

04-08-2005, 12:03 PM

" to keep the organic material from working into the dirt? Cuz organic dirt retains more water, right?"

I thought so too but now I'm starting to think the leaves worked like shield and helped the water run off.

on the other hand

"they're simply older and more packed in"

This may be the real truth, but last night the trails with leaves on were hard, trails with raw naked dirt were soft.

Lars, please, no more talk about raw naked dirt! I am having enough trouble keeping my mind off of those trails without provocative comments such as yours!:D

Pray for frost-out!

Wheels

04-08-2005, 12:58 PM

Rode over to the trails to survey last night and they are soft. If it starts raining they will be a mess.
Also nice effort on marking the trails with signs, it seems to be working, other years the trail would be all torn up by now.

What was interesting was that the old hiking trails covered in leaves were quite hard and dry. It seems to me that the leaves helped to protect the hiking trails over the winter while the single track was really soft where it was free of the leaves.
Where I going is to suggest that next fall let's not use leaf blowers and rakes to manicure the trails. Yes the trails are harder to ride with leaves on them but we are in the woods and leaves are part of the natural setting. Just my 2 cents but look for yourselves and think about it next fall when people start complaining about leaves on the trails.

I think the issue here is that the trails that we're blown, and not covered - we heavily used over the winter. This left a thick coating of ice that took longer to melt than most of the surrounding areas, including old covered trail. When I walked the trails a couple of weeks ago, the only snow at all was right on the trail (both Tom and I slipped and fell on the stuff - ouch).

Combine that with the new, softer trail and that's why the new trail is taking longer to dry out. I think it's simply the price we pay for getting to use the trails in the winter. I don't believe it would be helpful to not remove the leaves in the fall.

Whatsmymantra?

04-08-2005, 01:46 PM

I knew "raw naked dirt" would get a response.

FSSS

04-08-2005, 05:50 PM

I do know that the hiking trails will feel more firm than the biking trails as they're simply older and more packed-in. The biking trails are brand spanking new so they're softer by definition. I believe that has more to do with the hard vs. soft feel of the two trails than whether they have leaves on them or not.

Isn't the point of raking them off to keep the organic material from working into the dirt? Cuz organic dirt retains more water, right?

You are both right. :)

Plus what Pete said... the trails had compacted snow on them (from winter use) and compacted snow takes longer to melt.

stoneage

04-10-2005, 05:35 PM

A good point from another thread...

"there were riders out there and the moisture has sat in the ruts and didn't have anywhere to go. Too bad, it probably cost us all a week of open riding."

Don't be selfish; you are hurting everyone, including yourselves, by riding the trails before they are dried out. Be patient and the trails will be open sooner and be sweeter.

Wheels

04-10-2005, 07:39 PM

A good point from another thread...

"there were riders out there and the moisture has sat in the ruts and didn't have anywhere to go. Too bad, it probably cost us all a week of open riding."

I wasn't quite sure what "ruts" you were talking about at first Bill, but now I get it - Bill's talking about the ruts from riders that rode when it was extremely wet - leaving deep gouges where water will simply sit in the middle of the trail.

When the Trail Committee walked the trails a few weeks ago, we did our best to smooth the one rut that got cut before we got the closure signs up. The dang thing ran the entire length of the trails - I'm just glad there haven't been more of them.

If things stay dry (no rain) we should be able to announce the opening soon. It's looking good so far, the wind over the weekend really helped.

Wheels

04-10-2005, 08:04 PM

Just an update on the progress so far. We've had three building sessions in the last week. Zone 3 (between 55 and the RR) is now 95% done. The new entry/exit on the Parkway is in place and the ravine trails have been closed/reclaimed. The openings to the RR will be fenced closed shortly, and diligently kept closed.

I want to talk about this particular closing for a moment - as this has been one of the most popular sections in the park, the primary crossing point to Sweeny, and I'm sure there is going to be some groaning about the closure.

The decision to close these trails was made after a great deal of debate and delay. In the two years we have been planning these trails, we have debated every possible alternative with Tim Wegner and Eric Gerrits of IMBA, Bill O'Rielly (formerly MOCA Trail Steward), Pete McKinney (MOCA President), and all of the MPRB Staff. We even revisited the subject at last Wednesday's session.

The decision was always the same, it had to be closed. We simply can't have a sustainable trail that runs through a ravine without some major improvements. The only alternative was to build a series of log crossings, which we simply don't have the manpower to do.

Either way, the openings at the fence had to be closed as part of the MOCA/MPRB agreement. We can't have an official City trail system the crosses private property.

The only alternative was to create access at the nearest possible point before crossing the railroad bridge. Even that decision went through multiple changes, and it is now in place.

All I can say is I know this was a great trail and I'm going to miss it as much as anyone else. It's a sacrifice we had to make for the good of the entire system. Please respect the fence closings and use the the official entry. We are being graded on our ability to manage this particular change with a very watchful eye.

stoneage

04-11-2005, 09:19 PM

Ripped from another thread...applies here....

"This rain, while welcome, basically just cost us an opening this week. The ruts that exist are going to hold the water instead of shedding like usually happens at Lebanon."
"Basically this is exactly why we preach staying off at this time of year. The poachers have cost us all another week of drying. I hope their early rides are worth all our pain."

If you are guilty of this activity, please stop.
If you know who is doing it, confront them and tell them to stop.

quinnsoccer27

04-13-2005, 09:42 PM

are the trails open now or what, i made my way to the wirth just befor dusk to try and get some trail work in but didnt make it in time, but i found that all the signs at the trail entrenses were gone, i assumed that ment i could ride so i did a section of the trail and it was great, the trails might not have been fast last season because they were not packed down and they were so bumby, but now that they are smooth you can get alot more flow and go alot faster, and i must say i had a blast, its so good to be on trails again, if i was wrong about the trails being open im sorry, but the one section i did seemed fine so i just went,

noise_is_life

04-13-2005, 10:18 PM

Theo is not open until you see it posted here or on http://mocatrails.org.

Wheels

04-13-2005, 10:27 PM

Theo is open!

Andrew, you were quite likely the first person to legally ride them this year - I'm surprised I didn't see you as I was taking the signs down at dusk.

The trails are a bit soft on top - which is a good thing. The Trail Bosses all agreed that opening them now while they're still a bit pliable is a good move - as the riding will help to smooth the bumps. Just try not to dig in if you hit a soft spot.

Enjoy.

PS - I'm sure were going to see some more rain in the near future - please show some restraint and stay off when things are muddy. We're not going to be doing an official closings during the season - just the spring thaw. If all else fails, use common sense.

Wheels

04-14-2005, 03:54 AM

Trail Report 4.12:

We had a good work session tonight with a dozen workers and a couple of little people (Mara said they love to look for rocks).

We built 200 meters of new trail tonight in section 1. We didn't close any trail as the section we are working on is not finished yet - so keep an eye out for some changes, like a bench cut across the old trail.

Please stay off the new section until after the weekend - it needs a lot more work.

We're trying to make things more interesting by adding more rise and fall in the trail - it's nice and hilly in section 1, the area we worked on tonight should make everyone happy - but it's a deep bench cut, so it's tough building.

There's some really nice flow to what we built - Mara spent most of the night working on a rock armored feature that runs between two trees, just after the rocks is a nice pocket turn, more turns, go between two trees before crossing the ravine (it's going to have a nice corduroy and stone banking), then carry your speed uphill for the climb - which is going to end in a feature that tests your climbing skills in technical sections.

It's slow going right now - we're trying to build some of the best trail yet, in hilly areas - with not enough time and not enough help. Where seeing some great new blood - but what we're really missing is the old blood. Those of you who have helped in the past have valuable experience that we can really use right now - please come out and help.

The next trail building session is on Saturday - 9:00 on. We'll also have a session on Sunday - most likely early, like 10:00 on. We'll post times here shortly.

Aaroneous

04-21-2005, 03:27 PM

How's it look out there? I was hoping to do a lap or two tonite...

bigwheel

04-21-2005, 03:45 PM

How's it look out there? I was hoping to do a lap or two tonite...

Aaron, Last night we saw quite a few bikes while doing trail work. I didn't ride it, but the little I saw looked pretty good.

fatbaldpop1

04-21-2005, 04:23 PM

I rode this morning. Tacky but guilt free.

Go for it.

gordanfreeman

04-22-2005, 02:27 PM

any idea how it is today? i appears to have rained overnight so im unsure...:confused:

edit: well im going out and gona head over there. hopefully it is ride-able and if not ill just stick to some of the other trails or find something else to ride :cool:

2nd edit: just got back. trail is in pretty good condition. some of the stuff that was just cleared is pretty soft but the new jumps are looking sweet :crazy:

Trevize1138

04-22-2005, 05:20 PM

Conditions as of last night were excellent! NO real bad spots, a couple *slightly* greasy corners but things are firming up nicely. There is some new trail that's quite soft and sandy, so watch for those.

iyoung

04-22-2005, 06:23 PM

I just attempted to ride the trail at 4:45 but it started raining on me. I just got back home and now it looks like the rain is done. Sheesh, stupid weather. :angry:

stoneage

04-22-2005, 07:30 PM

Light sprinkles didn't affect the conditions, which are as perfect as I have seen at Theo. All the bumpy sections from last year are getting beat in nicely. Get out and ride as many laps as you can to firm up the tread. The conditions are ideal. Cool and tacky.

manual63

04-23-2005, 06:49 PM

This trail is getting really good. For those of you who have not riden it or have not been there in awhile, go check it out. I got to ride the downhill jump into a couple of rollers and a lot more nice sweeping trail is carved out. When it gets all nicely packed, this place is gonna be some sweet smooth flow!

col200

04-23-2005, 08:31 PM

I agree! I was out on friday night and it was great! Some spots could have been a bit more dry, but overall, it felt good. The new stuff is killer! The first section by 55 was amazing! What a huge difference from last year. Adds so much to the trail. I didn't even care that the mud vally was no longer being used. The jumps are something else. Looks like old 'doubles' me and my buds used to make on our bmx. If I remember correclty, the trail runs clockwise...is that right? I had two dudes riding counterclockwise that almost took me out. The worst part is one guy (dressed in a red specialized jersey to match his red 1,000,000 specialized bike) yells "Heads up!" as he flys down the trail towards me. If it's his first time, I forgive you, but if not...YOU WATCH OUT MAN!
Sorry about the rant, I'm actually a really nice guy! :)

Anyways, I'm SUPER impressed with Theo. Just awesome!

mckinney

04-23-2005, 08:32 PM

I was out for a late afternoon ride today and the trail was in great shape - it's really starting to set up nicely. There are a few sections that are in need of some maintenance and tweaking, as Shawn mentioned in the "Loop is Finished" thread, but overall things are looking good. Thanks to all who have helped on this project - it's been a long haul and there's still lots more to do, but it's nice to be able to ride a complete loop!

A side note - somebody who must not be so happy with the trails was out prior to my ride and had moved a number of logs and branches into the trail in several spots in zone 3 (south of the tracks). They're cleared now, but if you're biking near dusk, keep your eyes open for surprises - I sure didn't expect to see them in the places I did.

- Pete

The Buckthorn Killer

04-24-2005, 08:39 AM

The trail is "ok"......:D I hear it kicks, @$$. I need to get out and ride it. Too much time building it.

FSSS

04-24-2005, 05:41 PM

I did a lap after trail work today. The trail is AWESOME right now... really fast.
Maybe one or two small mud 'holes'.

I'm not sure if this is new, but the tree that hangs low at the end of the downhill (going north) in zone 3b has been cut. I was wondering how long it would take the city to get the chainsaws out there for that one. Some of you smaller people may have liked the challenge, but I'm happy I won't be hitting my camelback anymore!

Love the new stuff in 7!!
Didn't have the guts to hit the rollers on the first pass - maybe next time.

There were A LOT of riders out hitting the trail today. I got to trail work about 10 this morning and finished my ride at about 1:30 - I figure I saw at least 20 different riders on the trail during that time.

Konaboy

04-25-2005, 02:35 PM

Will the trail be ready for tonight's Kenwood ride?

Trevize1138

04-25-2005, 03:10 PM

It seemed pretty nicely packed-in yesterday. My guess is since we just got a short bout of rain this morning and it looks like we won't get any more that it might be OK by tonight. Any 2nd opinions?

mara

04-25-2005, 03:27 PM

It seemed pretty nicely packed-in yesterday. My guess is since we just got a short bout of rain this morning and it looks like we won't get any more that it might be OK by tonight. Any 2nd opinions?

I agree, probably because I need it to be true.

Hours worked at Theo this season = 32
Hours ridden at Theo this season = 0

If it isn't dry enough to ride tonight I may implode.

Trevize1138

04-25-2005, 03:29 PM

I agree, probably because I need it to be true.

Hours worked at Theo this season = 32
Hours ridden at Theo this season = 0

If it isn't dry enough to ride tonight I may implode.

Yeah, especially after the fun stuff you guys built in Zone 7 (that I didn't help out with one whit! ... I ashamed ... :( ). Shad would really like that stuff, too.

Shad, have you ridden Theo since Wednesday? There's new stuff there you'd really like.

manual63

04-25-2005, 04:02 PM

Shad, have you ridden Theo since Wednesday? There's new stuff there you'd really like.

Build one jump and you all won't shut up......:)

Announcement to all. I have ridden the new section at Theo!

and Chris.....stop pooring salt into old wounds!

Now that I got that off my chest. The new section is fun. The approach to the jump needs to be fixed and Shawn and I have already discussed it a bit. So, if you have not been to Theo lately......"RIDE OR DIE!".

Oh, and if anyone actually thinks I care that a billion people told be about the new section at Theo because there is a jump in it.......don't worry....I don't mind. Now, only if a billion people could tell me about the next big stock on the market.....I would be in business......$$:D$$

Buck

04-25-2005, 04:10 PM

how big, how big, how many, how many????

L8R
Buck

noise_is_life

04-25-2005, 04:15 PM

how big, how big, how many, how many????

L8R
Buck

Small and few, but not bad for a XC trail.

Wheels

04-25-2005, 04:38 PM

Since this seems to be the place for all the discussion about jumps/freeride features - let me be the first to let you all know that the MPRB is preparing plans for a BMX/Freeride park. Jennifer Ringold of the MPRB was on exchange in Australia last year and helped to implement a park down there.

She has told me that they want to do the same thing here - and that it would be built as a beginner, intermediate, expert structure with a BMX track and jumps.

So how do like that? If you're down with it - drop her a line just to let her know that you're ready to step up and help make it happen when the time comes - jringold*minneapolisparks.org (replace * with @).

FSSS

04-25-2005, 05:13 PM

So how do like that?

I like it... I like it a lot.

Is MOCA going to be involved in the BMX/Freeride project??

Wheels

04-25-2005, 05:22 PM

Is MOCA going to be involved in the BMX/Freeride project??

I don't know - it's all in it's infancy. I'm assuming it would be a group like ours if not an extension of MOCA. Most likely, the city would hire contractors to build it instead of volunteer labor - as you would have to use equipment.

Wheels

04-25-2005, 05:34 PM

Trail report: 4:30 Monday from Baba -

Trail is damp, soft in some spots - but ridable. Section 5 is the softest - so go easy in there.

Do it.

flombe

04-25-2005, 05:38 PM

A big THANK YOU to all who are pushing to get Theo done! The new stuff is great and the whole system has a good feel with different sections having different personalities - smooth and flowy, tight and twisty, a log pile or "rock garden" here and there, ups and downs, a few jumps, a berm here and there, the rollers, different vegetation, etc. Nice riding.

The cool thing here is that as the loop neared completion (and is now complete), more and more of this fun stuff has been added. I look forward to seeing what is to come!

I managed to squeak out two rides this weekend and no trailwork whatsoever. Believe me, it is a matter of timing and yes I feel some guilt for not helping out much, but I will contribute as however I can.

Wheels, 20 minutes? You were cookin'! When is the first annual Theo Wirth time trial event?

manual63

04-25-2005, 06:04 PM

Wheels, 20 minutes? You were cookin'! When is the first annual Theo Wirth time trial event?

I have some software for that.....:D

manual63

04-25-2005, 06:14 PM

If they are doing something BMX, are they thinking and actual sanctioned BMX track or some sort of Dirt Jumping freeride park. I like the dirt jump freeride park for both BMX and MTBs idea the best. Like I have stated before, it could be done skatepark style, but with wood, concrete and dirt. MPLS also needs a typical skatepark for skateboarders too. I am interested in seeing what they are thinking.

Wheels

04-25-2005, 07:54 PM

Wheels, 20 minutes? You were cookin'! When is the first annual Theo Wirth time trial event?

Yea, and it felt really good - only skidded a couple of times ("Not skidding is a Skill" - is my new slogan). I think it helps that I know where all the turns are - maybe I could gain a slight advantage in a time trial :)

Shad - as I said, it's in it's infancy. But my understanding is that it wouldn't be used for racing, and it would be combination park. I think the reason Jennifer brought it up is that the city wants to draw the line on what we're doing as far as stunts/freeride things on the singletrack trails. What I hear is a door opening to have the freeride park and bmx park combined, allowing the city to keep everyone (most everyone) happy and providing a more central location for the IMBA type stunts with other extreme aspects of cycling and more family friendly environment with picnic tables and grills.

I personally love the idea. My father and I began the Maple Plain BMX track 25 years ago, its the longest standing public BMX park in MN. I was by there yesterday and sure enough there were at least a dozen kids riding with their parents grilling and chilling. I've been going back every 5 years to help rebuild it (it's due soon). An interesting statistic I heard yesterday about the MP track - there have been fewer injuries on the BMX track then there have been on the softball/baseball fields.

I think it's important for these kinds of bike trails to be in an open area where the congregation of undesirable elements is less likely and more visible. I also think the city is simply exploring a more appropriate area that has a more controlled environmental element. Building jumps and stunts in the woods is not something they've ever been real warm about, the kinds of things you need to do to the ground for this kind of thing are better suited to machine building.

Also Shad, I think they are doing a skatepark thing at the moment - I'm not sure where though.

BTW - Sorry for the hijack, if anyone wants to discuss this further, please begin a new thread.

Trevize1138

04-25-2005, 10:26 PM

If there's a time trial, we gotta have a team relay.

Me likes the relays. :)

manual63

04-26-2005, 09:20 AM

homebrewbiker

04-26-2005, 10:42 AM

Rode Theo last night on my P.2 singlespeed. It is finally getting really well packed. I love riding singlespeed there and this is my first real off-road singlespeed ride. Mara also rode single there and she was flying.

When I first got there I did a lap on my own. I did it in about 20 minutes on my singlespeed, not counting the section by 55. I almost think I am faster on my single than I am on my geared bike. I tend to down shift a lot when I have gears, but with a single, I just hammer the hills which probably makes me go a lot faster. Huh....I never wuda thunk it....:alien:

I am not too experienced with riding single speed, but I think one of the things is that it is critical to keep your momentum, so it makes you ride faster since you can't down shift.

Funny, when I ran into the guy who hated the new trails (we'll call him "The Hater"), one of his complaints was that it was designed by single speeders for single speeders.

One of my motivations for getting a single speed was just so I could ride Wirth. Now I think I am going to have to come up with places to take the FS gear bike I bought last year (opposite to what I originally thought).

manual63

04-26-2005, 10:44 AM

Yeah, but Wirth doesn't have enough elevation to make big climbs, so I don't know how you could make it not singlespeed friendly.

Wheels

04-26-2005, 11:14 AM

From the looks of the puddles collecting in the Bryant Lake Bowl parking lot - I'd say the trails are too wet to ride today - so, unless someone reports in otherwise - trails closed today.

Funny about the SS vs. FS bikes - I just happen to ride FS, don't own a SS - might have something to do with the new layout.

Trevize1138

04-26-2005, 11:46 AM

Riding a singlespeed up a hill is *harder* if you're moving slower, so that certainly forces you to ride faster because you'll actually save energy by hammering it on an SS.

Of course, this is how you should ride your geared bike *anyway* because riding up a hill faster in a taller gear is way more efficient than throwing 'er into granny gear and spinning it.

It's just like with all the extra components on bikes these days: you should still ride it like it's a SS with no suspension and platform pedals. The gears, suspension and clipless pedals are there to make things ride smoother and more efficient, but most people use them as crutches rather than aides.

Wheels

04-26-2005, 12:22 PM

I know some think it sacrilege, but the best ride I've ever had at Theo was the SSWC on a FS/SS - I had just put together my Rocky FS, so I dropped a SS wheel and road derailleur on the back an ripped it up.

I was having a good race too, running in what I thought was the top 5 - but our group made a wrong turn that shaved 60 seconds off on the first lap and were disqualified at the end. Sure was a great ride though.

And since this is the trail conditions thread - the trails are wet today.

Trevize1138

04-26-2005, 12:53 PM

Oh yeah ... staying on-topic! Trail contitions! :)

CLOSED!

manual63

04-26-2005, 01:10 PM

I created a single speed section in Riding Tips. That way more people will see our singlespeed info.

Wheels

04-28-2005, 11:05 AM

Trail open. Trail is damp - but rideable, section 5 could be really sticky today - if so, please skip this section. Go easy, it's soft.

manual63

04-29-2005, 12:02 PM

noise_is_life

04-29-2005, 12:10 PM

Anyone post about the horrible rock in the dip in section 5. I wasn't there to help Wednesday, but some of those new armored sections need help....especially the rock sticking up at the bottom of that dip. People, especially non suspension single speeders.....are gonna die on that thing. This needs to be done ASAP, not wait until trailwork day.

Shawn mentioned it in his update, here it is (I haven't seen it, but was a little worried that BILL and SHAWN had trouble with it, doesn't leave much room for error a us meer mortals):

"Mara found what she thought was a small stone, after some digging, and some more digging - she unearthed a 5 or 6 hundred pound stone which now lies at the base of a badly eroding ravine. Be careful if you're out there - we're not done chinking-in this section - Bill and I both went over the bars on the thing - so watch yourself, it's sketchy."

Trevize1138

04-29-2005, 12:23 PM

Actually, Shad's talking about the small rocks at the bottom of the gulley just before the concrete skinny. Is that just not quite completed yet? It needs a bit better flow through the bottom. It was a lot of fun before when you dipped down and up through it but the rocks at the bottom made Pete Koski worry he'd bend his rigid fork! I'm guessing this is all slated for fixing the next trailwork day anyway because we were rapidly running out of daylight Wednesday and didn't have time to finish stuff like we wanted after spending so much time harvesting VW-sized boulders.

The Shawn & Bill Endo Show rocks are fine :).

Kosk

04-29-2005, 12:25 PM

I agree with Shad, those rocks are dangerous, I almost wrecked hard head first into the uphill wall...not fun:mad:. Now that I know they are there, it ain't so bad, but they still take all the flow out of that little dip. You pretty much have to check all your speed before you drop in, espicailly on a rigid SS.

They may serve a purpose to armor against water across the low spot, but I think they need to be buried down flush or something. I my opinion the addition of this ruff, rock crossing feature, has taken away from the fun of the original "whoopie" feature.

Im motivated now, I'd be willing to show up for trail work to help get this fixed. See you wednesday?

mckinney

04-29-2005, 12:25 PM

Anyone post about the horrible rock in the dip in section 5. I wasn't there to help Wednesday, but some of those new armored sections need help....especially the rock sticking up at the bottom of that dip. People, especially non suspension single speeders.....are gonna die on that thing. This needs to be done ASAP, not wait until trailwork day.

Shad -

Are you talking about the single rock placed at the bottom of the dip in the middle traverse of section 5 (before the concrete skinny) or the larger armoring project on the lowest traverse (after the berm turn)? The latter still needs work and was indented to be left in way that it was at least ridable until the weekend. If the single rock in the dip before the concrete skinny is causing problems, maybe is just needs to be buried further, so that there is earth covering both the leading and trailing edge of the rock.... I never had a look at it myself after it was completely finished, though.

- Pete

Trevize1138

04-29-2005, 12:26 PM

Yeah, what he said. :)

Trevize1138

04-29-2005, 12:27 PM

Shad -

Are you talking about the single rock placed at the bottom of the dip in the middle traverse of section 5 (before the concrete skinny) or the larger armoring project on the lowest traverse (after the berm turn)? The latter still needs work and was indented to be left in way that it was at least ridable until the weekend. If the single rock in the dip before the concrete skinny is causing problems, maybe is just needs to be buried further, so that there is earth covering both the leading and trailing edge of the rock.... I never had a look at it myself after it was completely finished, though.

- Pete

We have a winner! :) I figured it was just another of those things we didn't have time to tweak perfectly before the sun forsook us.

Trevize1138

04-29-2005, 12:33 PM

Back on topic:

Trails are in great shape! I've updated the trail conditions page on the main page of MORC.

Wheels

04-29-2005, 12:34 PM

Eric and John were working on the dip, those guys moved both those boulders by themselves - it was crazy watching them roll it down the ravine.

Anyway, we knew it was sticking up a bit too much - but we were quickly running out of daylight and needed to get it buried. We didn't ride it, but we were hoping it would work out. We'll have to dig it out and bury it deeper, see you all tomorrow.

thebionicman

04-29-2005, 12:34 PM

It needs to be deeper. We didn't get a chance to ride it before we finished. Its going to be a pain to rework. Its a BIG rock in there.

manual63

04-29-2005, 02:18 PM

I am going to Steeple Chase, so I will not be there, but please fix it. It's one of those things....if I have problems with it......it's a pretty big problem....:)

I hope to learn a lot at Steeple Chase and the IMBA school. This will be helpful for when we start on the X sections and more advanced stuff.....and maybe even if a freeride/BMX park gets built. I used to not do much trail work, but now that I can have an input and then ride what I help build.......I am addicted.

Wheels

04-29-2005, 02:28 PM

No problem, we'll get it done tomorrow. We (Eric and I) thought it might work the way it was - we need to slow people down a little bit there - I find myself popping out and landing uphill of the trail) but it's obvious we need to make a fix.

Hope everyone has a good time at IMBA school!

gordanfreeman

04-29-2005, 03:11 PM

just to confirm: there will be people working @ theo tomorow (saterday) morning? i plan on coming outand maybe w/ my friend sam in tow again. but i dont want to drag my butt out of bed @ 8am if noone else will be there :zzz:

Wheels

04-29-2005, 04:57 PM

gordanfreeman

04-29-2005, 05:47 PM

hehe spoke too soon. got the moca email just now, if i wouldnt have been so impatient i would have answered my own question :p

Trevize1138

04-29-2005, 05:51 PM

hehe spoke too soon. got the moca email just now, if i wouldnt have been so impatient i would have answered my own question :p

If only everyone else was as enthusiastic as you about trail work! :)

col200

04-29-2005, 08:46 PM

Rode it tonight around 5:30 and it was a little tacky. Very good stuff. That small shower didn't do anything to the trail. I agree that rock was protruding a biit too much..caught me off guard and scared the hell out of me! Is it there for erosion reasons? Otherwise, seems kinda like a bad place for a boulder. But I understand what needs to be done, needs to be done! Anyway, rides great! (Thanks to the person(s) who cut that branch down...the one after the doubles. Saved my face!)

Wheels

04-29-2005, 09:02 PM

Right, it's there to harden the ravine surface. Otherwise, over the course of the next couple of years the ravine will lose it's "U" shape and it will trench into a "V" shape - which will surely pitch you over the bars!

noise_is_life

04-30-2005, 09:57 AM

hehe spoke too soon. got the moca email just now, if i wouldnt have been so impatient i would have answered my own question :p

Sorry that was a little late, the moca email sender has been sleeping on the job. :)

Just so you know, the web site is usually the most up-to-date and the first place that I post info about trailwork (or anything else), if in doubt go there first. http://mocatrails.org

Wheels

04-30-2005, 02:37 PM

The main entrance on the north side is now complete for those of you entering from the Golden Valley side. Baba happened to be the first rider through - seems appropriate as he'll probably get more use of it than anyone else.

99FSRComp

04-30-2005, 03:42 PM

The main entrance on the north side is now complete for those of you entering from the Golden Valley side.

Where is the entrance on the north side, and where does it connect to the trail? I live in GV and would like an idea of the nearest street.

RedSquirrel

04-30-2005, 04:41 PM

All,

Theo is alive! Same but different. I rode Friday adfer work expecting the ussual...same as last week. Whoa:shocked: . We'll, I few areas are-how shall I say, updated. Just three areas I can remember.

For example, I was booking through at mock speed and was a load full at one point. One spot stands out...

Watch out for the big dip (whoop D doo) prior to concrete drop. It has rocks at the bottom. I came in mock speed as ussual, freaked the crap out of me. Fast, brakes, skid, slid and correct barely kept up and rolling. Watch out I tell ya. Good stuff.

Heath

stoneage

04-30-2005, 05:14 PM

Where is the entrance on the north side, and where does it connect to the trail? I live in GV and would like an idea of the nearest street.
Just go up the road past Courage Center, through the parking lot at the "special needs" hospital, enter the gate through the fence and the trail is right in front of you. Always go left at Theo at any Y intersection.

soupboy

05-01-2005, 08:52 AM

...a nice ride of Cedar/Brownie/Theo yesterday.

Cedar - Nice singletrack additions have been made.

Brownie - In great shape - finally cleaned all the technical bits in one pass (well, not the insane DH log ride)!

Theo - What's up with that rock at the bottom of the big dip before the concrete block ride? Has that always been there and the dirt around has just been worn/washed away? Some unsuspecting soul is going to stack hard, OTB style, into the upslope. Otherwise, conditions were fantastical as some of the newly cut trail firms up.

Other - Also watched two motherhuckers on one of the elusive "connectors" build a crazy jump and perform the inaugural launch. Cool, but I thought he was going to perish after boosting way past the LZ. He was fine.

Good stuff.

Sean

stoneage

05-01-2005, 09:56 AM

Yeah, Wheels, our buddies are building stunts on the Glenwood-55 connector on the west side of Theo. Some stupid jumps and some dumbing down of obstacles. Can't make up their mind. I will try to tear them apart as I find them, and talk to the builders if possible.

Wheels

05-01-2005, 01:58 PM

I noticed that too (Glenwood). My new position on these kinds of things is to stay neutral - we have our hands full trying to do things the right way in the authorized areas at the moment and every time I take a position on new trail building in other areas, the community seems to bite back.

It's hurts us, and it helps us I guess. It hurts us, as we will surely face more resistance to the establishment of legitimate trails by local community groups - but at the same time, it may show the city that our techniques are more sustainable and that their ability to police these kinds of unauthorized building is impossible. I agree that it would be better if this wasn't happening at all right now.

For now, I'm on the fence about this issue, and we have our hands full with just getting the pilot project finished.

The gully crossing in Theo with the stones sticking up has been addressed earlier in this thread, but we will be making an adjustment to the stone that's sticking up. I agree, it may be dangerous if your not ready for it - we could use some help to do this kind of work - it's very time and labor intensive. It will probably take a team of three builders a full session just to bury that rock deeper.

quinnsoccer27

05-01-2005, 08:33 PM

i saw the gap today as well, as u may think it was not me who built it, but i know who did and they took alot of time to do it right, its not it the way of the main trail and doesnt effect the main trail at all so why does it have to be torn down, its well built and fun to hit, if someone put a 15' gap in the middle of the trail then id say yea tear it down, but its not hurting anyone, so why must it come down

Tim Wegner

05-01-2005, 08:58 PM

A trail feature that is not authorized by the land manager does indeed "hurt" someone. It hurts the effort of the people that have worked hard for more than 3 years to get "legal authorized" trails at Theo. To think that a jump that is just put in by a rider does not hurt anyone is just too simplified of a thought process. Most people that have never worked on a trail take this same thought approach. Once you have worked on the trail or worked with the land manager the attitude changes significantly.

Yesterday and today I worked on all kinds of jumps, berms, drops etc. It was done with the approval of the land manager, built to IMBA standards and a real challenge. If you think building to IMBA standards translates to boring dumbed down trails, I challenge anyone to go out and ride what we built at Steeple Chase the past 2 days.

If you build features without permission they will be torn down. That is part of the agreement MOCA has with Minneapolis Parks. Yes you do indeed hurt someone if you build unauthorized features. You open up the possiblity of the trails being shut down to mountain bikers. I personally have put at least 100 hours into this trail and I am on the low end of the dedicated individuals that have been working on this trail. Last year Theo had more than 2,000 hours of volunteer labor on these mountain bike trails. wouldn't it be a shame to have all that volunteer time pissed away because someone thinks "I wasn't hurtin no one."
TW

quinnsoccer27

05-01-2005, 09:22 PM

thanks for the explanation, but wouldnt a log pile be a trail feature as well so wouldnt all the non authorized log piles have to be torn down as well

thebionicman

05-01-2005, 09:31 PM

The unauthorized stunts in that I find in Theo will be taken down. The MPRB is bucking the mountain bike trail every chance they can. We can't take a chance with these types of things.

Inform the person that built it to step up and get involved. The MPRB is looking at building a BMX/Freeride park, what more could you ask for. A clean slate to start with.

manual63

05-01-2005, 10:13 PM

From a freerider, BMXer and XC rider who supports MORC, MOCA, and IMBA.....yeah...I am about to get harsh.

Stop building illegal trails and stunts in Theo.....just quit doing it!!!! You are a fool and risking ruining such a good thing. Some of us know who you are and yes....we look down on you. If you want to build illegal trails.....go do it somewhere else where it won't effect what we are doing at Theo.

We have at least two ex-BMXers and a couple of freeriders working on Theo, just be patient and the good stuff will come. We need approval before we build certain things and if we follow the rules.....we could get a BMX/Freeriding course......SO STOP BEING an IDIOT!!!!

Take that......:laugh::laugh:

alberts

05-01-2005, 11:22 PM

how is it that the crazy log ride in brownie which is clearly an illegal stunt manages not to be destroyed but the second a freerider builds a gap ever one is up in arms about demanding that it be taken down. they are many other illegal stunts in the vast network of trails similar to this but some how the only ones that people care about and think should be destroyed are the ones that are more freeride oriented

Earthman

05-02-2005, 12:56 AM

the way it works is much like the media and how they will pick one case and follow it even if it turns out to be wrong they still drill it to death much like the bride who just ran away the other day and turned out to cold feet seems like the pick one or 2 stunts complain about them have them removed then they can sleep better at night nowing that they messed up some ones day but i have been told it is all for the greater good and well honestly that is all that maters i would rather bike a less stunt filled trail all year then a really fun stunt filled trail for 3 weeks until some kid trys somthing dumb hurts him self the media storms in on it and the next thing you know

live at 9 the worth death jump
kare 11 top story will your kid get hurt at worth
channel 5 top story kids pressured into taking a jump at worth is yours one of them

so then the lame over carring mom and her craft group start getting there
own group going which they call M.A.R.T. mothers Are Removing Trails why becuase they always have neet little names like that they lobbie the park boards saying how many kids do you want to die in the park and what if my son or daughter gets in shape and does not want to play the video games i got them

so the park board removes all the trail i try to go biking and get a 125.00 ticket and all the little kids sit at home eating fried chicken and getting fat play Off road Mt biker 3

why all becuase you wanted a jump or a cool stunt that could hurt little kids and honestly what is better then a stunt that can hurt people nothing in my mind well i guess having a trail in a state park in the middle of the city where i can go as much as i want to for free and bike is better

so in closing remember it's not that the people here do not want a sweet trail they just have to follow the same guide lines that put do not play IN or around this dumpster and the drowning warning on a 5 gallon bucket

well thats my thought at least

Buck

05-02-2005, 01:04 AM

easy there shad, if i was building anything this weekend it would have been at the imba trail school, and i said it wasnt me, and the jump isnt even in theo

hmmm. alittle calling out on this one, I thought you were coming to the IMBA school...were you there...hmmm I certainly think not, I worked with atleast 40 different people today, I don't think you were among them...sad...sad...sad...if we can't police ourselves the city will, except they won't go after just you they will go after the whole park, to them you aren't a FR you are mtb biker.

L8R
Buck

thebionicman

05-02-2005, 07:41 AM

I would like to say that I did recieve an email from Mr Quinn explaining why he couldn't make it. I won't go into depth but I am sure if he could of made it to the school he would have.

Mr Erdman is on the right path, its not how we as mountain bikers interpret the rules, its how the Minneapolis Parks and Rec interpret.

col200

05-02-2005, 09:22 AM

This is all good and everything(seriously) but we need a new thread on the actual condition of the trail.

soupboy

05-02-2005, 09:28 AM

...here but part of it likely has to do with relative proximity to the approved TW trails. That section is accessed from Glenwood, the same street where the MTB parking lot for TW is located. The trail there will see it's fair share of traffic and if not part of TW, then it is immediately adjacent to it.

Brownie is not. Brownie is not a recognized trail either and is therefore not being managed by anyone that I can tell. It's a good (as in fun) trail but it probably has more structural flaws in it then anything else in the Twin Cities.

I saw the first launch of the jump in question. It was cool, and not something I would do, but you have to understand how it looks to a casual user. When I saw the jump and the LZ I thought to myself, "...these kids are frickin' nuts..." Sure enough, the guy flew past the LZ and almost pile-drived himself into a tree. While I'm sure he's ridden big jumps before, what's going to happen when an unsuspecting or inexperienced rider turns down that same path? Carnage.

If you want to build this type of stuff please do it far away from managed trail systems. Perception is reality and guilt by association - i.e. jump likes this close to MOCA's efforts at TWP - is only going to hurt the larger cause.

Sean

how is it that the crazy log ride in brownie which is clearly an illegal stunt manages not to be destroyed but the second a freerider builds a gap ever one is up in arms about demanding that it be taken down. they are many other illegal stunts in the vast network of trails similar to this but some how the only ones that people care about and think should be destroyed are the ones that are more freeride oriented

homebrewbiker

05-02-2005, 11:08 AM

Is Theo ridable tonight?

manual63

05-02-2005, 11:20 AM

This is all good and everything(seriously) but we need a new thread on the actual condition of the trail.

Or you could create a thread called "Illegal building at Theo"....

But, since you didn't think of it....I will create it for you.....:)

Wheels

05-02-2005, 11:37 AM

Is Theo ridable tonight?

As far as I know Will, it's still rideable and open.

On the Freeride subject, yes - the Glenwood connector is going to see some unauthorized use as the city would like bikers to park at the Theo Lake parking lot.

It's also the next section we hope to develop should the pilot project be approved - so we'll be having a community meeting with the neighbors some time this winter.

With all of that in mind, and the fact the city is willing to look the other way on this little stretch of trail for the moment - I think we should not tolerate any new building there.

Hope that's diplomatic enough for everyone.

iyoung

05-02-2005, 07:10 PM

The trail is perfect!
I didn't notice any mushy spots at all.

flombe

05-02-2005, 11:18 PM

I rode tonight. Yup, the trail is in fantastic condition! Very fast and grippy. The stuff that was built last year is starting to feel like Leb - sooooo smooooth. Thanks again to all you trail workers!

col200

05-03-2005, 09:29 PM

I rode tonight. The trail is still in tip top shape. There are rumors of rain this week so go ride it just in case. Actually, some spots are really dry. One thing that was NOT good was the concrete rail run. Somebody must have hit the logs funny coming off and pulled two with them. As I came off the concrete, there were two large logs about 1ft past the ramp...one had a NAIL!!!!! sticking straight up at me....about a 3 inch nail! I wasn't worried about my tire as I was worried about endoing on the log and putting my kneecap on that nail! Don't know what happened there, but it sucked. I stacked one of the logs back on the ramp so it was somewhat ridable and set the log-of-nails off to the side. I'm sure you'll see it tomorrow. Just a heads up.

Trevize1138

05-03-2005, 09:45 PM

That's why you need to sit back and pull up on the handlebars before the end of the concrete skinny ;).

I've only rolled down that thing twice, and one time I felt like I was near endo with all the logs in place! I've been dropping off it ever since.

col200

05-03-2005, 09:55 PM

I agree. Pulling up and launching off might be a better option but not an option for some riders. My point was...why was there a nail sticking straight out of the log? :confused:

mckinney

05-03-2005, 10:04 PM

Nails were placed in the logs to hold them together as a bailout structure for the concrete skinny (so that you could roll off of the end of it). It was really a temporary solution and will be replaced by something that will hold together better. I'm not sure what we'll end up putting in there, but a couple of likely options are to set an appropriately-sized rock in place or to use lag screws on the logs in place of the nails.

Thanks for the heads-up on the problem!

- Pete

thebionicman

05-04-2005, 10:50 PM

The trail is in great shape. I still haven't gotten a chance to ride it yet. The signs are in so it is now a one way system. The tread has packed in quite nicely, it looks like pavement out there.

Wheels

05-05-2005, 12:45 AM

I agree. Pulling up and launching off might be a better option but not an option for some riders. My point was...why was there a nail sticking straight out of the log? :confused:

Well, because we cut some corners to be perfectly honest. We're now going back to finish many of the things we did to simply get the loop done, but with the dismal turnout we had tonight - we may not get a chance to fix all of these things right away.

Come out and help! That goes for everyone who rides the trail!

iyoung

05-06-2005, 02:44 PM

Anyone been to Theo yet today? :confused:
Are the trails rideable after last night's rain?
I just finished building a new bike and hoped to give it a test run this evening.

noise_is_life

05-06-2005, 02:48 PM

I haven't been out, but I gotta believe it's fine, it only sprinkled for a little while here in SLP.

I plan to head out this afternoon.

stoneage

05-06-2005, 03:58 PM

The little rain that fell only helped keep the dust down. Rode three laps on my road bike last night. Road tires sure put the 'ill' back in thrill!!! Only went down twice, though. You want a treat; ride and jump the skinny on 23mm tires.

noise_is_life

05-06-2005, 04:00 PM

Jess

05-08-2005, 08:57 PM

Just go up the road past Courage Center, through the parking lot at the "special needs" hospital, enter the gate through the fence and the trail is right in front of you. Always go left at Theo at any Y intersection.

If you always go left, you'll exit the trail at least once. When you cross the new entrance on the north side, you have to go right to stay on the trail. Then if you want to loop again, you also turn right at the end :p

Jess

homebrewbiker

05-09-2005, 02:00 PM

You want a treat; ride and jump the skinny on 23mm tires.

Do you go over the logs on those skinny tires or get off? What about the rocks? Just regular road bike slicks or the slightly knobby tires?

Trevize1138

05-09-2005, 02:07 PM

Anybody ride there today? Conditions report? Seemed pretty dry and nicely packed/tacky all weekend but I didn't ride Sunday and am wondering how it held up during the recent rains. So far, it seems like Theo stays drier than Leb! :banana:

stoneage

05-09-2005, 03:48 PM

Do you go over the logs on those skinny tires or get off? What about the rocks? Just regular road bike slicks or the slightly knobby tires?
Over.
I don't hit rocks; I just float magically over them.
Regular road slicks.

Wheels

05-09-2005, 05:13 PM

Just received a call from Stoneage - the trails are wet and soft, so we're closed for the day.

robc

05-10-2005, 11:51 AM

I assume barring any major downpours that TW will be ridable this afternoon, correct? I might hit it up since its right in the middle of my evening bike commute :)

Thanks.
Rob

Trevize1138

05-10-2005, 11:57 AM

Use your best judgement, of course. If the trail is still pretty wet/muddy when you get to it then certainly you'll want to wait another day.

It's been holding up to wet weather pretty well, though. Still, be mindful of conditions and just make sure you're not doing any permanent damage while riding.

Wheels

05-10-2005, 11:54 PM

Still closed, looks like it's going to be a wet a week. Spread the word, we need to keep things in shape, and we're not going to have the time to do any repairs before the grand opening.

Please respect.

Aaroneous

05-11-2005, 09:22 AM

I rode down to the trail early yesterday eve to check it out... The higher elevation areas were not too bad, but there were some pretty greasy areas... I rode a couple of the drier sections slowly until it started raining, and then I was outie...

Unfortunately as I was crossing 55 (and the rain picked up), a group of like 10 serious looking dudes with muddy bikes passed me heading north - I said something like "the trail's pretty wet, uh..." I'm hoping they were gentle, but I'm guessing they weren't... :cryin:

Tex

05-11-2005, 09:43 AM

I tried to get a ride in at Theo last night as well. I managed to get in a full lap before the rain kicked in. There was another group of riders in there while I was there, but they seemed to be exiting the same time I was.

Also, I rolled through the section in North of Glenwood Ave, and on the West side of Theo Wirth Parkway, and it looks like there's a new double built on the left hand side of the trail. I probably should have destroyed it, but didn't know if it was my place to do so. So Shawn, or who ever, you may want to check that out.

Oh, and by the way, other than the trail work I participated in last Saturday, this was my first time riding Theo this year. I have to say I was very pleased with how it's coming along. Good job to everyone that has made it happen. I look forward to seeing everyone out there on the trail, either on their bikes, or working on them.:banana:

Wheels

05-12-2005, 02:42 PM

It should be no surprise that the trails are too wet to ride today, but then not much surprises me anymore - so just to be clear Trails Closed.

Trevize1138

05-12-2005, 02:59 PM

The rain should be stopping within an hour, by the looks of the radar. I'd be very curious to see how long it takes for the trails at Theo to dry out sufficiently to be rideable again. So far, it seems to shine up like a new penny in short order.

Neeless to say, unless it's obviously dry enough to ride or until you hear otherwise from here: stay off, please :).

Wheels

05-14-2005, 06:35 PM

Trails are still closed, nothing but muck out there. Sat. 5:30pm

iyoung

05-15-2005, 07:01 PM

Anyone check out the trail this afternoon?
I live closeby, I may check it out. Likely too wet still...

iyoung

05-15-2005, 11:30 PM

Rode down to the trail at about 6:15 on Sunday. Saw others exiting on my way to check out the trail and their bikes didn't look muddy so I took a lap. The trail was in good condition with very few soft spots. Didn't see any damage. What a great trail! I can't believe how quickly it dries up! Good work everyone who's worked to make this trail available!

stoneage

05-16-2005, 07:08 AM

That's a pretty good endorsement for our efforts. After a 3-4 day soaking, the rain stopped at Wirth at around 7 PM on Saturday. Less than 24 hours later, it sounds like it was rideable. I know that at least 1/4 of the trail would have been a mud fest, prior to MOCA activity, for at least a couple of days. Soil conditions at Wirth play a part, also. The mix seems ideal for building, riding and shedding water. Grand opening is 19 days away!!!!

stoneage

05-16-2005, 03:46 PM

arrrrghhhhhhh

Looks like we are out of there for another day.

Earthman

05-19-2005, 10:47 PM

checked the trail out tonight after work the first section after the par 3 was good a little damp but not bad slow biking is better then no biking

i had to walk my bike almost the whole way in the other sections way to wet and did not want to hurt the track any more then it was since it seems like a lot of people ( 6 when i was out ) hit the trails today

the trail is looking a little molested by bikers not walking the bike in bad places and it seems like we have a couple of skid masters out on the trails

on the plus side it did look like the skid master did it a couple of trees

also the rock pile not sure what you call them that we build the other week in a big dip the dirt on it is looking a little washed out

cockleburr

05-20-2005, 12:29 AM

So, Noah and Our friend Steve Smith and myself went to TW and did a lap. Steve is from Santa Cruz, CA. Great riding there is SC, huge 10'0000 acre forest with some great singletrack right there in town, much like here in MPLS. Same kind of conditions, issue's and such, just more elevation is the main diff. Anyhow, Steve said the trail is excellent! He was riding my Spot and just schooling me,. Hows that work? that a guy comes to town, borrow's a bike he's never been on, rides a trail he's never been on and rails it. So, the last section was pretty slimy, otherwise it was go go go. Trail was NICE and firm enough.
Also, nice work done by tonights MOCA, MORC, IMBA crew with doing a walk thru the park with some other user groups in the Wirth Park and Eloise Butler neighborhood groups.
Thanks.

Earthman

05-20-2005, 02:07 AM

stoneage

05-20-2005, 07:08 AM

it was designed by single speeders for single speeders.
That is such a crock!!! It was designed by single speeders for cross bikes. NO, wait a minute, it was designed by BMX'ers for walkers. For god's sake, it's an off road trail that didn't exist before. Be happy!!!!!
That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I'll ride anywhere his hardtail or dualie will. Some people just don't get it. End of minor rant. Start of major rant. NITWITS riding in the mud. My friend Keven saw some jerk exiting at 55 with a muddy bike and asked him if he knew that he should stay off the trails when they are wet. He got a blank stare. I say start ID'ing the bikes and riders and post a description on a MORC site thread busting these bozo's. Best description possible. Pictures would be great.

Wheels

05-20-2005, 07:47 AM

Also, nice work done by tonights MOCA, MORC, IMBA crew with doing a walk thru the park with some other user groups in the Wirth Park and Eloise Butler neighborhood groups.
Thanks.

Thanks Gene,

So glad you guys didn't come through 10 minutes earlier!

As Gene mentioned, we did a walkthrough at the Eloise Butler area of the park with about 30 locals, and I think it went really well - I'll post more about this on the "Trail related issues" thread - but just a reminder, it's the one area of the park that is currently illegal to ride is the areas between 394 and Glenwood Ave. I think we made some new friends last night, and it looks like we'll get some of the area back - but it's more important now than ever to make sure we stay out and not upset the delicate political balance - so please respect and stay out.

BTW - make sure to check out Steve Smith's opening at www.oneononebike.com tonight - and bring your check book, Steve needs to get back to those sweet Cali trails and you need some new art for your walls.

Also - I'm a trail designer, and I don't even own one of those trendy single speeds - (mine's a 3 speed).