Why do I fall off of bridges?

[Shickdawg]

So I was in the U.P. yesterday, riding the MTU Trails (an excellent experience, BTW), and there are a number of natural as well as constructed obstacles, towards which I exercised due prudence (read: I skipped most of them :D). I did ride a number of short bridges, and fell off two of them. These bridges are not particularly narrow, being constructed of a 2x12 with 2x4's on either side providing support. So my riding path should be around 13" wide, and my tires are only 1.95" wide. So why do I get onto one of these bridges and start steering the bike like I'm drunk, and ride off the edges?

[rowland]

do you look at the end of the bridge or at your front tire. you should look to where your going. if your already looking to the end of the bridge, then save the beer for after the ride:D

[syntaxjunkie]

probably the same reason i do periodically, which is that a bike tends to follow your head. instead of looking down the middle of the bridge, my gaze has a natural tendency to veer off where i don't want to go, with bike occasionally following suit. it's easier to avoid when you're on someone else's wheel (unless they go off...). it's just one of those mental things you have to unwire. stupid brain... :crazy:

[KleinCrazy]

So I was in the U.P. yesterday, riding the MTU Trails (an excellent experience, BTW), and there are a number of natural as well as constructed obstacles, towards which I exercised due prudence (read: I skipped most of them :D). I did ride a number of short bridges, and fell off two of them. These bridges are not particularly narrow, being constructed of a 2x12 with 2x4's on either side providing support. So my riding path should be around 13" wide, and my tires are only 1.95" wide. So why do I get onto one of these bridges and start steering the bike like I'm drunk, and ride off the edges?
Most likely problem is you are not looking far enough ahead.

Try walking along a curb sometime. If you look down at your feet or just a little ahead it is much much harder than if you just keep you head level and look way out ahead. I think it has to do with orientation of the ear to the ground and the balance mechanisms contained there in. or I could just be blowing that out my.....

Anyways, the farther ahead I look, the more luck I have with riding a straight line.

[berrywise]

I was actually noting this the other day when riding at Leb. I find myself to be a very capable rider and have no problems, for the most part, clearing the obstacles at Leb but what I noticed that I have either made it my style, or have gotten lazy and am looking a few feet out in front of my front wheel a lot of time.

I started to force myself to keep my head up and it was quite surreal. You start to see stuff on the side of the trail and things seem just so much different. Which is the more effective way I think is a balance point because there are certain things that you do need to watch right in front of your wheel like rock gardens etc.

For anyone who is like me trying looking way the heck out in front of you and you'll have a whole nother kind of ride.

Anyone else notice this?


Most likely problem is you are not looking far enough ahead.

Try walking along a curb sometime. If you look down at your feet or just a little ahead it is much much harder than if you just keep you head level and look way out ahead. I think it has to do with orientation of the ear to the ground and the balance mechanisms contained there in. or I could just be blowing that out my.....

Anyways, the farther ahead I look, the more luck I have with riding a straight line.

[mtnbykr]

I
....trying looking way the heck out in front of you and you'll have a whole nother kind of ride.
Anyone else notice this?
start riding at night. with headlights you must look out farther down the trail than in the day. the more you ride at night, the better you'll get at looking ahead.

kl

[destrago]

I think it has to do with orientation of the ear to the ground and the balance mechanisms contained there in. or I could just be blowing that out my.....

I think it's more a matter of focus and a psychological thing that physiological. If you close your eyes your performance in walking a curb is about the same regardless of the orientation of your head. When you learn to snowboard teachers tell you to look where you're going and focus on that, not down at the snow. The same is true of sailing, and looking ahead while driving. (Try driving down the highway looking at the yellow line right next to you (actually, don't - just trust me that it makes your driving and control way worse)). I think it's some tendancy to oversteer because of speed and mental physical estimation. When you're looking at things close to you, subtle changes require quick, large corrections. When you look far away, the perceived corrections are much smoother and smaller.

I don't think it has anything to do with the inner ear. I do audio research at the U of M and I've done a fair bit of reading about the cochlea (inner ear) and it's a fairly robust machine. Until you get more than 90 degrees in orientation away from standing up it has a very good sense of what's up (literally). Moving your head up and down only has very little effect on it unless you do it repeatedly and fairly volently (for all you headbangers out there). I could be wrong, but I think it's probably more of a focus thing. The solution is the same though.

Actually, you know what, this would make a really cool psychology research project. I bet someone out there has done this already, my lab did some work with blind distance estimation..... ok I'll stop rambling now.


-Tony

[manual63]

If you are ever near Uptown, go down Hennipen until you get to the Holiday station. You will see a long narrow curb between the sidewalk and station lot. It's a great place to practice riding on narrow objects. I ride this thing every time I have gone by it, which is a lot. I almost always make it half way, but I have made the whole thing a couple of times. It's barely wider than your tires, but if you just ride up it and look at the end, it's actually easier than you think. You don't need to be afraid of it because you are only 6 or so inches off the ground.

All the stuff said here is dead on. Do not look at your front tire and don't look to the sides. Just relax and ride like you normally would. It's the mental part that is getting to you, but you probably ride in a perfect line when you just ride along, so it can be done. Look where you are going and just do it..........easy......right????

[Trevize1138]

Problem:

falling off bridges

Diagnosis:

rider sucks

Solution:

be a better rider

:crazy: :banana: :crazy: :banana: :crazy: :banana:

I kid! I kid! I've got a nice rough spot on my shin from falling over off that stupid camel hump bridge on the XX loop ... grr ... the only bit of advice I have is to go over them faster rather than slower. Works for me, at least.

[manual63]

I was actually noting this the other day when riding at Leb. I find myself to be a very capable rider and have no problems, for the most part, clearing the obstacles at Leb but what I noticed that I have either made it my style, or have gotten lazy and am looking a few feet out in front of my front wheel a lot of time.

I started to force myself to keep my head up and it was quite surreal. You start to see stuff on the side of the trail and things seem just so much different. Which is the more effective way I think is a balance point because there are certain things that you do need to watch right in front of your wheel like rock gardens etc.

For anyone who is like me trying looking way the heck out in front of you and you'll have a whole nother kind of ride.

Anyone else notice this?
I have mentioned this before. I had this problem when I started MTB riding. I was so used to BMX and Freestyle where I would look at the grind spot or lip of a jump that it took me awhile to realize I needed to look further ahead MTBing. Once I did, it was a whole new world. Balance over sections, picking better lines in turns, rock gardens, and just plain planning my speed was improved. I would be surprised by tight corners sometimes and then I would realize I was not looking out ahead. Once I did that, I knew when to break and what line to take when going into a tight corner. Rock gardens are also a challenge and if you look ahead, you can pick a good line through and over the rocks. Sometimes I see that pulling over a big rock is actually easier and smoother than bouncing through little ones. It's amazing sometimes, but looking ahead makes a huge difference. There are very few exceptions to this rule, but not many.

[manual63]

the only bit of advice I have is to go over them faster rather than slower. Works for me, at least.
Go over them faster and look right at your front tire.......:laugh: :laugh:

Someone try this and tell me what happens.......:)

[Tetreves]

There is actually a real reason for losing your balance while on a bridge. Like everyone else has said, look at the end of the bridge, don't look down. But the REASON this helps goes something like this:

As your riding the trail, you're looking at a certain point in front of you, but basically at the ground. When you hit a bridge, things change because the ground is now further away when you look at the same place. It's not a fear of heights, it's simply a (sometimes rapid) change of depth perception. This is what throws off your equilibrium, and consequently, your balance. It has nothing to do with your ears directly.

The easy solution for short and low bridges is to look at the end of the bridge (where it meets the ground). For higher and longer bridges, first focus on the surface of the bridge, and ignore how high you are. Try to ignore the ground completly and focus ONLY on the bridge. This is hard when you can see through the bridge. Also helpful: practice. The more you do it, the more comfortable you are doing it, and then the better balance you have.

[EmL34]

do you look at the end of the bridge or at your front tire. you should look to where your going. if your already looking to the end of the bridge, then save the beer for after the ride:D
Good point. I would only add: Look where you want to go, don't look where you don't want to go. The bike will follow.

[manual63]

There is actually a real reason for losing your balance while on a bridge. Like everyone else has said, look at the end of the bridge, don't look down. But the REASON this helps goes something like this:

As your riding the trail, you're looking at a certain point in front of you, but basically at the ground. When you hit a bridge, things change because the ground is now further away when you look at the same place. It's not a fear of heights, it's simply a (sometimes rapid) change of depth perception. This is what throws off your equilibrium, and consequently, your balance. It has nothing to do with your ears directly.

The easy solution for short and low bridges is to look at the end of the bridge (where it meets the ground). For higher and longer bridges, first focus on the surface of the bridge, and ignore how high you are. Try to ignore the ground completly and focus ONLY on the bridge. This is hard when you can see through the bridge. Also helpful: practice. The more you do it, the more comfortable you are doing it, and then the better balance you have.Jeeeez Ed.......your such a smartie!!!!

Good point!

[nigel]

Go over them faster and look right at your front tire.......:laugh: :laugh:

Someone try this and tell me what happens.......:)
Bah, c'mon now Shad.......look at a spot in the middle of the bridge and follow it until you get near it, then look down at it as you cross it and then look at it from under your saddle!

[Tegra54]

I also find that it helps me keep balance if i am in the right gear and can pedal over the bridge at a leisurely pace rather than trying to glide over them

[manual63]

Last night I was trying to ride these S benches downtown on my freestyle bike. They are about 1 1/2 feet wide, but are fairly tight S's. The rear wheel wants to dogtrack to the inside and fall off the inside edge. I got through about 1/2 way then had to hop off. That is about 2 1/2 curves.

The trick is to roll forward, then hop the rear wheel to the outside of the curve so it doesn't fall off the inside. It's just a roll slightly, then hop.....then roll...then hop. You do this until you make it or fall off!! It's a lot tougher than going in a straight line, plus you must balance in place sometimes while you hop over the rear wheel. Fun...Fun!!

[Shickdawg]

Just wanted to say thanks for the tips. Riding at Battle Creek last night, I found myself starting to have problems just staying on the singletrack, especially up the big switchback climb. I forced myself to look farther up the trail, and wouldn't you know it-- I stayed on the trail. Thanks for the help!

[rusto]

You people are WAY off. It's obviously SATAN!! Go to church, fill up your water bottles with holy water and you'll be just fine.
And try using a higher gear than normal. Gives your feet more resistance. I like to slightly drag my rear brake for even more pedal resistance. And like everyone else said, look where you want to go, that's where your wheels will flow.
Can I get a witness?

[manual63]

You people are WAY off. It's obviously SATAN!! Go to church, fill up your water bottles with holy water and you'll be just fine.
And try using a higher gear than normal. Gives your feet more resistance. I like to slightly drag my rear brake for even more pedal resistance. And like everyone else said, look where you want to go, that's where your wheels will flow.
Can I get a witness?
11th post and we're starting to worry about you already.....Ruston.

[Tetreves]

. I like to slightly drag my rear brake for even more pedal resistance.
I like to knock my rims on rocks until the brakes rub ALL THE TIME! That gives me plenty of resistance, and a great workout besides! You learn to ride in a swervy line down those straight bridges, but it makes the s-curve benches a breeze! :crazy:

[ryno lite]

After reading this thread I found myself looking down on the bridges rather than straight ahead and man it was scary, I had to look up really quick or I would have gone right off the bridge! The key definetely is to look ahead at where you're going. I shouldn't read all these threads, it makes me think too much on the trail!

[bigwheel]

After reading this thread I found myself looking down on the bridges rather than straight ahead and man it was scary
Same here. However, now I realize the *real* cause of two problems:

1: I used to have a problem with the leb camelback crossing. Prior to this thread, I decided that the solution was to sit down and keep peddling, and stay committed to the bridge, rather than bailing (and often falling). The technique has been working for several weeks now, but I didn't realize the real reason. Since reading this thread, I realized that the real problem was that I was looking at the hump rather than the end of the bridge. Once I decided to commit, I started looking at the exit, rather than the hump.

2: A couple weeks ago, I found myself daydreaming, and fell off of the 1x bridge twice on the same day. (I have never had any problems with that bridge in the past.) Yesterday, I caught myself daydreaming again, and realized that while my mind was in outer space, my eyes were looking down. This is not a cure for daydreaming, but maybe I can learn to look ahead while thinking about something else.

[okie29]

Try going faster. If you go really slow *on any surface* you'll tend to wobble. The faster you go, the straighter you'll go. Gyroscope effect, don'tcha know... g'luck

[manual63]

1: I used to have a problem with the leb camelback crossing. Prior to this thread, I decided that the solution was to sit down and keep peddling, and stay committed to the bridge, rather than bailing (and often falling). The technique has been working for several weeks now, but I didn't realize the real reason. Since reading this thread, I realized that the real problem was that I was looking at the hump rather than the end of the bridge. Once I decided to commit, I started looking at the exit, rather than the hump.

This is a good point. If a bridge or object is really long, you don't have to look all the way too the end, just out a ways in front of you. If the end is hidden, then look at the closest aiming point, but keep in mind that as you approach it, don't keep look at it till you get there or you will be looking down at your front tire....which is bad. You might have to keep readjusting what your point of reffernce is as you go over objects that have turns or humps in them. I guess 10 - 20 feet out in front of you is a good range. Practice enough and you will just do it naturally.

[Big Ben]

If you are ever near Uptown, go down Hennipen until you get to the Holiday station. You will see a long narrow curb between the sidewalk and station lot. It's a great place to practice riding on narrow objects. I ride this thing every time I have gone by it, which is a lot. I almost always make it half way, but I have made the whole thing a couple of times. It's barely wider than your tires, but if you just ride up it and look at the end, it's actually easier than you think. You don't need to be afraid of it because you are only 6 or so inches off the ground.
Or, if you ever ride around Calhoun or Harriet... here is some more risk-free practice. There is a somewhat narrow (about 10" or so) concrete "edge" to the blacktop bike path. Whenever I am riding around the lakes, I ride on the concrete edge. There is very little risk involved (except for the occasional tree, or if you are trying to "people watch" at the same time), but it is 500x longer than any log ride/bridge around.

[Buck]

You can come ride the secret trails this weekend and ride a bridge that is about 40 ft long and roughly eight feet off the ground! and only a smidgen over 16" wide, or this crazy log ride where only some parts have been flattened and the rest left as a log, knots included! Some other things to remember when riding ladders is forget you are riding ladders, i know this is hard, but just think, you can keep your tire on singletrack that is say what 6" wide, now simply raise it in the air a few feet and it is the same thing, another thing, you may find is that if your bike is set-up for pure XC you may have a real problem simply b/c you can't move around the bike in the directions that you need to move...I don't know if that stuff has been said or not, but hopefully I'll meet some of you guys this weekend down here!
L8R
Buck