Something's "Funny"

[Aaroneous]

OK - I'm new to Wirth this year, so I have to ask: What the f-k is going on up there?!? When I was there on Monday, I saw more shirtless guys wandering around with coolers than I did bikers. I stopped riding down by the lake cuz I ran into a little "party" on the beach I really didn't wanna see :sick: ... Is this new, or is everyone else just used to it?

[viv]

Yeah, Thats the naked man beach.. your best off simply doing your business and riding on. They tend to do their own thing.

[Aaroneous]

Fair enough... but still yucky...

[Trevize1138]

Next time ask 'em for a beer. I'm sure they'd ablige! :)

[homebrewbiker]

Next time ask 'em for a beer. I'm sure they'd ablige! :)
Well the price to paid for that may be more than you're willing to pay, or maybe not (not that there's anything wrong with that) :shocked:

[noise_is_life]

I've actually seen lots of people not so light in the loafers heading down to BA beach, but there is certainly that demographic hanging out in the underbrush (prolly getting more mosquito bites than action).

Everybody gets kicks in their own way, they're harmless...

[Trevize1138]

Can't believe I spelled "oblige" with an "a" ... I hang my head in shame ...

[snaab1]

The arrogance of those of you who think that the "new" trails at Wirth are the sole property of bikers is amazing. That area has been a gay hangout/pickup spot for much longer than mountain bikes have been around.
You should learn the history of an area before you claim it as your own.
I knew as soon as I read that the trails were going to be a part of a organized system that this homophobic bull**** would rear its ugly head. For as long as I have been riding back there (nearly 20 years now) we have all peacefully coexisted. But the number of riders was small, now we have organized trail building and many more riders which can only bring in people with issues.
The reality is that different groups use that area, and have been for longer than most of us, and if you have a problem with the potential of seeing public sex, and that potential is real on any given day, then find somewhere else to ride.

[nigel]

The arrogance of those of you who think that the "new" trails at Wirth are the sole property of bikers is amazing. That area has been a gay hangout/pickup spot for much longer than mountain bikes have been around.
You should learn the history of an area before you claim it as your own.
I knew as soon as I read that the trails were going to be a part of a organized system that this homophobic bull**** would rear its ugly head. For as long as I have been riding back there (nearly 20 years now) we have all peacefully coexisted. But the number of riders was small, now we have organized trail building and many more riders which can only bring in people with issues.
The reality is that different groups use that area, and have been for longer than most of us, and if you have a problem with the potential of seeing public sex, and that potential is real on any given day, then find somewhere else to ride.
For one thing nobody ever said that the trails belonged to anyone. Now on your homophobia troubles, well i cant speak for anyone else, but i for one have no problem with peoples sexual orientation but i do however believe that public sex is wrong and illegal for anyone! So for those not wanting to see it they have every right to say so and those doing it should be responsible for their actions if caught.

D

[bradpartyka]

Well, maybe a warning should be posted for families.

I for one would get a really good laugh at running into another nude gay man beach, but I don't want my kids with me.

[ryno lite]

The arrogance of those of you who think that the "new" trails at Wirth are the sole property of bikers is amazing. That area has been a gay hangout/pickup spot for much longer than mountain bikes have been around.
You should learn the history of an area before you claim it as your own.
I knew as soon as I read that the trails were going to be a part of a organized system that this homophobic bull**** would rear its ugly head. For as long as I have been riding back there (nearly 20 years now) we have all peacefully coexisted. But the number of riders was small, now we have organized trail building and many more riders which can only bring in people with issues.
The reality is that different groups use that area, and have been for longer than most of us, and if you have a problem with the potential of seeing public sex, and that potential is real on any given day, then find somewhere else to ride.
I have no problem with anyone's sexual orientation! I feel everyone should be free to be who they are and live the life they want! That said, public sex is illegal for anyone from heterosexuals to homosexuals, so I'd prefer not to see any public sex from any group, no matter their sexual orientation! It's just as uncomfortable to run into a man and woman having sex as it is to run into two men doing the same thing! Although, I like Theo, so I will just put up with it so I can ride some sweet singletrack!

[syntaxjunkie]

The rules of the trail work the same way at Wirth as they do anywhere else. No one has any more or less of a right to be there than anyone else. I can easily see the "shared use" scenarios at Wirth being even more polarizing than in other areas. But the fact remains that anyone out there deserves courtesy, respect and safe passage, regardless of who they are, why they're there and what they're doing. If you offer all three of these, you'll likely be repaid in kind. If you deny them, you can probably expect the same.

[EmL34]

The reality is that different groups use that area, and have been for longer than most of us, and if you have a problem with the potential of seeing public sex, and that potential is real on any given day, then find somewhere else to ride.
Not 100% sure, but those activities are illegal, aren't they?

I'd reverse this...If you have a problem with getting arrested for having sex in public, you should find another place. Being gay does not give anyone the right to break the law.

[Aaroneous]

Imagine how great it would be if there were as many places to ride singletrack in Mpls as there are to pick up gay men...;)

[Trevize1138]

Oh my GOD!

Why do you guys care? Seems like everyone's going out-of-their-way to prove how disgusted they are about those darn gays at Theo.

Whatever happened to just riding the trail and enjoying it without getting your pannies in a bunch about someone else's business? Unless people are having sex on your front lawn with your kid chained to a tree forced to watch, why bother?

[syntaxjunkie]

Oh my GOD!

Why do you guys care? Seems like everyone's going out-of-their-way to prove how disgusted they are about those darn gays at Theo.

Whatever happened to just riding the trail and enjoying it without getting your pannies in a bunch about someone else's business? Unless people are having sex on your front lawn with your kid chained to a tree forced to watch, why bother?

Hey now, that sounds just a little too much like common sense to me...

[Aaroneous]

Jeez, I wasn't trying to start a fight... :confused: Can't we all just get along? I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on the 3 main points here:

1) Being gay is OK
2) Parks are for everybody
3) Biking is cool

Now if someone wants to talk about bikes, I'll be in a different thread...

[Trevize1138]

We're just a passionate bunch, Aaron :) If you had said "Hey, it's a nice day to day what with the sunshine and all" it could have turned into a knock-down, drag out forum argument.

[Aaroneous]

Sweet. I like to argue, and I have a lot of free time at work. :D

[destrago]

What are you talking about? We are NOT an argumentative group!
.... ummm
... wait a minute....
nevermind...


:laugh:

-Tony

[Wheels]

The arrogance of those of you who think that the "new" trails at Wirth are the sole property of bikers is amazing. That area has been a gay hangout/pickup spot for much longer than mountain bikes have been around.
You should learn the history of an area before you claim it as your own.
I knew as soon as I read that the trails were going to be a part of a organized system that this homophobic bull**** would rear its ugly head. For as long as I have been riding back there (nearly 20 years now) we have all peacefully coexisted. But the number of riders was small, now we have organized trail building and many more riders which can only bring in people with issues.
The reality is that different groups use that area, and have been for longer than most of us, and if you have a problem with the potential of seeing public sex, and that potential is real on any given day, then find somewhere else to ride.

Hi Kurt,

I'd like to address a couple of issues you raised.

On homophobia, I haven't heard anyone raise the issue of the current park usage with any sort of homophobic overtone. Most of the bikers and trail workers I know are liberal in their views, although most as well prefer not to witness public sex acts. I haven't even heard of anyone complaining about the nudity on the beach.

On the history of the area, I'll share a discussion I had with a resident of the area since 1965, a biker, and a father of two young boys. He related to me that he has been riding bikes in the park since 1965, and that the sexual activity has been something that has only been in issue in the last 15 years. I can testify to this as well, as I have been riding the trails for over 15 years.

He told me he doesn't have an issue with the beach, where there is never any sexual activity - but that he has an issue with the activity that takes place in the woods and on the prairie. You see he can't take his boys to the park because he's afraid that they will come upon this type of public sexual activity, understandably so.

When the City of St. Paul shut down the more popular cruizing area along Franklin Ave. (public pressure after the murder of a gay city councilman) - the activity at Sweeny and Eloise Butler went up dramatically. The nude sunbathing at the beach has remained fairly consistent - but the cruizing has been much more prevalent.

The city has supported our efforts to create more traffic in the park, they know that illegal activity takes place - but they don't want to police the area due to budget contstraints. As part of our agreement with the city, we have a mandate to close any trail that is not environmentally sustainable - which happen to be many of the walking trails used by cruizers.

We have no more claim over the territory than the skiers, the walkers, or anyone else who is using the park for legal activity. But dog walkers must leash their dogs, skiiers and bikers must yield and share trail with walkers, and any illegal activity (drinking or cruizing) is just that - illegal and not to be tollerated. Soon there will be two paved trails in the park as well, and a housing development on Sweeny will likely close down the nudity on the beach.

This is not an issue about being gay, I think many people are offended by public nudity and sex - that's why we have laws for such. Understably so.

I get the feeling that you are more concerned with the idea that there will now be more of chance of getting caught as the area becomes less private for your activities. You should be thankful that your fellow citizens have been tolerant of this questionable and illegal activity for as long as they have. Everyone has the right to use the park without fear of witnessing public sexual activity, being deemed so offensive that it is illegal.

I've seen it all out there - and as trail designer I've walked every inch of the ground out there. I find penis pumps, empty lube containers, condom wrappers, beer bottles. I've been stalked in the woods, and I've come upon many disturbing displays in my years of riding the woods.

Take it behind closed doors is my advice, and possibly rethink what is that drives you to defend and participate in this type of degenerative behavior (all of my gay friends deplore it as well). We're just trying to make the park a better place, getting rid of the activity is merely a by product of our efforts that is welcomed by all but the participants.

I wouldn't be so worried about people with "issues", I think the people with issues are already there.

[snaab1]

Hi Shawn,



The issue is not my activity I do not have public sex back there, my wife would not be into that, the issue is that more people using the area will undoubtedly bring both tolerant and intolerant attitudes. My provocation was spawned by 2 fears about further development in the area. One is rational the other not, and I am not afraid to admit that.



The irrational is that I have been using that area for a long time, I helped develop many of the older trails, and to me it is my little riding stash in the city. Now I have to share, I know that this reeks of the “I was here first” attitude, but I make no apology for that.



The second fear is what I raised with my previous post. I do not condone public sex, hetero or homo, and when I see it at Wirth I ride the other way, I also know where it usually takes place and avoid riding there. Since I have history in the area I can make that decision, but for many people new to the area they do not have that option. I stand by my statement that it is mostly a forgone conclusion that it is happening and will continue to happen until they finally leave the area, brought about in part by an increase in bikers, but also as you raised, the development of Sweeny lake.



Sometimes I just like to rabble rouse a bit, but this is an issue that will have to be dealt with at Wirth.

[Wheels]

I understand Kurt,

I was telling my girlfriend about your post last night, she's a friend of your's - K. Norberg. She told me to rethink where you were coming from, it's pretty easy to not get the full meaning of where someone is coming from on the boards. I understand now you aren't a participant, but a rider.

The trails out there will never be the same, we realize that some of the vintage trails are going to be lost - but they just won't hold up when the place becomes more popular. Believe me, I'm doing my best to leave icons of the old trails and at times I have left things that are fun that may hold up - or have to be changed later. In the long run, we're going to get much more out of the terrain than we ever did before.

We were actually in danger of loosing the trails altogher - that's why we got organized. For those of us who've had this place as our own private Idaho, it's a new chapter. It's not going to be a bad thing, just different.

As for the cruizers - they'll be pushed out in the process. Our goal is to open the park to the public next spring, fully signed and void of any wandering trails (we'll be doing a lot more closing this fall). It's the last summer for the cruizers, hopefully new riders out there can restrain they're disaproval if they aren't open minded about the current situation.

I hope we didn't close any of your favorites.

[stoneage]

I was designated the trail steward for the Theodore Wirth Off Road Cycling project, which was brought about by over 2 years of hard work by the members of MOCA (Minneapolis Offroad Cycling Advocates). We saw a need to develop a system of sustainable trails for all users in this area, due to the poor design and unsustainability of the cross hatched network that existed in the park. Off road cycling has one of the largest user base of any recreational activity in this area and is also one of the most environmentally sound. There will be a few inconveniences until the project is finished. Dead ends will hopefully be kept to a minimum, and all the peripheral trails WILL BE CLOSED to ensure sustainability. MOCA will try to have signs in place (MPRB wants a minimum of these) to direct traffic flow; both foot and bike. The designated walking trails will be the main ski trail routes that are already in place. The new trail can be used for biking, running, snow shoeing, whatever, but we will be closing any illegal short cutting that takes place, to the best of our ability. This is a supported project of the MPRB and we intend on doing the best job that we can. MOCA is a non profit volunteer group intent on building good trails for the residents of Minneapolis and the metro area, and we welcome any resident, or non resident, to come and help us improve the character of Theo Wirth Park. Trail work night is Wednesdays at 5 PM til ??, and a weekend session that is posted on the website at www.mocatrails.org.
Thank you,
Bill O'Reilly (Wirth Park Trail Steward)