Why isn't Afton Alps more popular?

[Fool4TheCity]

What's the deal? Is it the trails?:zzz: Is it the 7$ for a trail pass?:sick: I've done a couple of 24hr races out there, it seems okay.:hit:

I heard a rumor from a LBS that Garry Fisher was in town and they took him to a couple of trails, and he hated Afton Alps. He loved Lebanon Hills.

What are your favorite trail(s)?

Peace,
Mike.

[manual63]

What's the deal? Is it the trails?:zzz: Is it the 7$ for a trail pass?:sick: I've done a couple of 24hr races out there, it seems okay.:hit:

I heard a rumor from a LBS that Garry Fisher was in town and they took him to a couple of trails, and he hated Afton Alps. He loved Lebanon Hills.

What are your favorite trail(s)?

Peace,
Mike.
I rode there once. I paid to ride rain rutted trails and it just didn't seem to have the single-track quality of.....well Leb, Terrace, The River Bottoms......uh....should I go on?

[gopherhockey]

What are your favorite trail(s)?

Peace,
Mike.
Uhhhh... I think probably Lebanon is my favorite... :D

There are others though, Afton included. I found Afton to be rather out of shape as far as a trail goes. Definitely not up to IMBA standards as far as erosion... although it is something different for sure, well worth a try.

I found Afton a real challenge last year. The 24 hour course kept you going up up up, then down, then up up up... just when you thought it was time to head down to the start/finish it took you back up to the very top again. (often you could see the top off in the distance as if it was taunting you). That part didn't bother me at all (we don't have that many good climbs around here) but some of the trail construction needed some help.

I suspect the situation at Afton may improve... something we are thinking about working on. Stay tuned for more on that topic...

[ostertoaster85]

I suspect that Afton isn't as popular because of the trail constuction. At lebanon you can "become on with" the trail and just flow along. At Afton, however, it's more like doing battle with the trail. It's a much more brutal trail. If you make a mistake, you crash and get creamed. At Lebanon, I actually find it pretty hard to push myself hard enough to crash. Personally, I kind of like it. It's a great workout and it makes you feel "hardcore".
That being said, I don't ride there much because I live right next to battle creek and don't normally feeling like spending the time or money to drive out and ride Afton. The tuesday night races, however, were great fun last summer.

I'm thinking about getting a season pass this summer and riding there a lot more. Because the trails are so brutal and the climbs are so hard, it's great training.

[Kevin Leis]

What's the deal? Is it the trails?:zzz: Is it the 7$ for a trail pass?:sick: I've done a couple of 24hr races out there, it seems okay.:hit:

I heard a rumor from a LBS that Garry Fisher was in town and they took him to a couple of trails, and he hated Afton Alps. He loved Lebanon Hills.

What are your favorite trail(s)?

Peace,
Mike. Elk River is my vote but I have yet to ride Lebanon Hills. I rode Battle Creek and my tour guide didn't put together a ride that flowed and it seem like you would have to log a lot of hours there before knowing the maze well enough to hit all the good spots.:mad:

[nigel]

I like Afton myself............but with all the other trails getting work and being closer I tend to not get out there that much. The trail fee has never been an issue with me but i know a lot of people wont go there to "get my ass kicked every turn on a hill for $7" but thats them oh well.

I think its great that Lebanon has come so far along since the 2.1 mile up/down loop it once was, but I do think some traffic needs to be eased away from it a bit. I hope Terrace gets revisited some, as well as the new Harmon Park trail. I would love to see some "real" trail maintenance at Afton, but I like it either way, its a challenge and a great race course at that!

D

[soupboy]

...but I'd heard that Afton was to be no more for the 2004 season. Something along the lines of insufficient revenues to cover operating costs - primarily hourly labor and insurance.

They certainly don't invest much in trail maintenance...

Look forward to Harmon Park and MOCA taking over TW trails...that, and the extension at LH.

Cheers,

Sean

[martini]

Afton blows. Just my opinion, but I think that the system they have there leaves much to be desired. Its hard to belive that Afton and Mt. Kato are owned by the same folks. The Mt Kato trails are TOTALLY different from the Afton ones. They have much more 'flow' to them and maintenance is actually performed on a consistent and correct basis. Afton simply didn't work with the terrain they have in a creative manner. There are a few nice sections, but overall, its subpar to what we have else where in the metro. If what Sean says is true, and MORC is working on Afton to have them allow us(MORC) access out there for maintenance/design, I think things could vastly improve. The terrain out there has LOTS of potential for a cool system to be laid out, it just needs a bit of vision on the part of Afton(and the realization that they aren't gonna make money of the trails system. Thats what the golf course is there for!)

[pwpatton]

Elk River is my vote but I have yet to ride Lebanon Hills. I rode Battle Creek and my tour guide didn't put together a ride that flowed and it seem like you would have to log a lot of hours there before knowing the maze well enough to hit all the good spots.:mad:

If you get the right guide you'll be able to learn battle creek very fast. I felt the same way when I started riding there but once I learned the trails and picked a good route I was happy with it.

If you wnat to ride there sometime give me a hollor. I only live 15m away.

[Kingbozo]

If you get the right guide you'll be able to learn battle creek very fast. I felt the same way when I started riding there but once I learned the trails and picked a good route I was happy with it.

If you wnat to ride there sometime give me a hollor. I only live 15m away.
What were the basics of your route? My roomate and I had a pretty consistant run that was fun. Started at the "entrance" by the school, looped around the upper section for a bit then headed into the lower section.

[nigel]

If you get the right guide you'll be able to learn battle creek very fast. I felt the same way when I started riding there but once I learned the trails and picked a good route I was happy with it.

If you wnat to ride there sometime give me a hollor. I only live 15m away.
can i come too :)

[Kevin Leis]

If you get the right guide you'll be able to learn battle creek very fast. I felt the same way when I started riding there but once I learned the trails and picked a good route I was happy with it.

If you wnat to ride there sometime give me a hollor. I only live 15m away. Sounds good . I'm not sure when I can but maybe some Sat. in June I could tell that if the right route was followed that it would be very fun. I just didn't like hunting around for trails. That was my friends fault. He said he knew Battle Creek but he didn't. I had a map that I got off the web some where with a recommended route but I left it in the car when he said he knew the trial. Then he flated and didn't have a spare tube or a patch kit so he had to use my patch kit. It just made for a tough ride.:geek:

[homebrewbiker]

If you get the right guide you'll be able to learn battle creek very fast. I felt the same way when I started riding there but once I learned the trails and picked a good route I was happy with it.

If you wnat to ride there sometime give me a hollor. I only live 15m away.
Yes, I went to Battle Creek twice last year, once apparently biking where I was not supposed to be (by the paved trails), and a second very frustrating time in the Mountain Biking portion. My only memory is of getting on this mushy double track trying to go uphill. I would like to see some of the good trails sometime.

[ostertoaster85]

I think I know the hill that your talking about. I normally avoid that one. The only time I ride it is when I'm trying to train for hills that really suck.
I'd love to show people around battle creek, but I have a lot of end of year concerts/graduation stuff coming up. (This is my last year in highschool.)

After that's done I might try to get some group rides together.

P.S. I probably know battle creek better than most people because I live a couple of blocks from the trailhead, so I could put together a pretty good ride.

[homebrewbiker]

That sounds great, as long as riding around with a 40 year old doesn't bug you too much. :laugh: As to the hill, it really wasn't that bad except that my bike was sinking in the mush so I gave up and walked up it. It really sucked.

I think the mistake we made was not getting off on the singletrack enough. I will go back and give it another shot and try to take a lot more of the singletrack this time.

[ostertoaster85]

PM me before you ride BC and, if I have time, I'll come along to show you all the good single track.

[ole bul]

one part of the battle creek trails that a lot of people miss out on is the loop that runs past where the old ski jump used to be. from the parking lot on hwy 10/61 you go up the tar path almost to the end, and you'll find a trail going left into the woods...it brings you all the way back to the parking lot again. if you're coming from the school parking lot, this trail forms kind of a "3rd tier" to supplement the 1st two tiers. i find battle creek to be a little bit short once you get to know the place.

regarding Leb...it brings out the BMX love in me. smooth and sweet. i've only been there twice cuz it's far from my house, but it's quite an experience.

at the same time, i love the rough and tumble world of afton. granted, the trails need erosion help and in that sense they are not well maintained. but at the same time, a tough single track trail that you actually have to battle with -- a trail that you cannot become one with -- a trail where you can take a serious dixie if you wipe -- this kind of trail keeps the MOUNTAIN in mountain biking.

[RedSquirrel]

Afton is way more challenging no doubt. Personally I like the brutal, natural type trails more than the coast and flow. If you have the goods the on-site conquer of said brutality is the given demand of choice.

I dig Leb, but Afton is much more of a work out and challenge for me.

Murphy is my favorite late season, but, that's just because I'm training for a particular race. I like to combine the dirt roads around and the actual Murphy loop for a 2-3 hour ride.

Afton- $7 is nothing. In fact they already have the staff hanging out for the golfers, no extra cost there. Insurance? What-ever.

I rode Afton 3 my first three times this year. I hope to do a few more before the 24 hour.

[transplant]

I don't know if "brutal" is the right word to describe Afton. "Natural" is more spot on. I rode it for the first time yesterday and had a ball. It's definitely a thinking man's trail. If they're going to include all of the off-shoot singletrack sections in the 24 Hour, it will really be a challenge, especially at 2:00 AM. I personally like that dis-jointed, no-flow type of riding. Paying $7.00 seems kind of steep, however, considering the trails aren't really maintained. If they do end up falling under the MORC domain, I'd like to see them stay the way they are, with erosion being the target for maintenance. We need at least one place where you can get beat to pieces if you aren't paying attention.

[dejorn]

I really like Afton.



Of all the places to ride, in the area, it pushes your body to the limit more than any other. It's not just the climbs, but also the challenging descents that make it great. I like a trail that rewards riders for knowing how to ride technically demanding trails. At Afton it is not just about being in great physical shape, but also being able to adapt to the terrain and have enough "guts" to commit to a given section and ride through it.



I think it is ironic that there has been a tremendous "push" for better suspension and bikes that offer more travel, and people complain that the trails are too rough. I agree that there are erosion issues at Afton, and would love to see MORC being allowed to work on those issues. I just like having a trail that allows me to test my limits.

[Magic]

Because of the trail layout. Not alot of people like the climbing out at Afton. I for one like the climbs, got to earn your decents. I would like to take over at Afton and change a few things. It's been years since I was out there. Paying 7.00 bucks to ride the trails is a little over board. That place could be one of the best places to ride in the East Metro. It has great terrain to work with. It could be like the new Steeple Chase or better. Hope this comes under MORC hands so we can get her in the shape it could be.

[manual63]

It's also time for Afton to step up to the plate and plan for the freeride future. It's like snowboard parks, places resisted them until they became so popular at other places they realized they had to open one.

I don't think the Afton trails are IMBA standard. A few fall lines and many eroding trails because of poor drainage and lack of propor bench cuts.

Now that I have been building trails and attending the IMBA trailschool, plus I bought the book, expect more comments like this from me......:)

Afton needs a lot of work and whoever runs it needs to get MORC/IMBA involved in helping out.

[Buck]

It's also time for Afton to step up to the plate and plan for the freeride future. It's like snowboard parks, places resisted them until they became so popular at other places they realized they had to open one.

I don't think the Afton trails are IMBA standard. A few fall lines and many eroding trails because of poor drainage and lack of propor bench cuts.

Now that I have been building trails and attending the IMBA trailschool, plus I bought the book, expect more comments like this from me......:)

Afton needs a lot of work and whoever runs it needs to get MORC/IMBA involved in helping out.

Take it one step further shad and don't call on MORC/MOCA/IMBA (or Afton for that matter) to do it...step up to the plate yourself and approach them...or do some research and get me all the info you think necassary to approach them and I'll do it. Lots of talk and no do, gets you right where you were before...nowhere


L8R
Buck

[seberly]

Nice comment - y'all might recall there was an IMBA trail school at Afton last fall - I'll take the credit for the idea. New trail was built - armored etc - Afton is becoming aware of what can be done when it is done right.

Oh, and before asking the same questions over and over read the old posts.

[bolmsted]

...I really like afton the way it is. I agree putting in more trails with a freeride focus would be rad, but I really like the afton course the way it is and I hope adding FR trials wouldn't take away from what is there now. Going UPhill is WAY more fun than going downhill. In fact; I wish Afton had twice as much vertical climbing per lap! Each of the big climbs hits you when you are totally fresh and I wish there were a couple climbs like the Manhandler/Whistler combo with a series of switchback descents all the way to the bottom that keeps you breathing hard only to climb to the top again immediately afterward. Now that would Rock! ...because it is soooo fun dropping people on climbs.:etard:

[EmL34]

Uhhhh... I think probably Lebanon is my favorite... :D


Some 43% of surveyed members agree with you.

[bolmsted]

Some 43% of surveyed members agree with you.

Wait a minute! That's probably due to the fact (at least to some minor degree) that 43% of those polled, probably helped to build the Lebanon Hills trail. ...hmmm. There's a lesson in here somewhere.:p

Any word on further work to be done by MORC at Afton this season?

[waitabit]

Definitely go with someone who knows the trail, its a good one if you have a specific route to follow.(Battle Creek that is)

[Little D]

I agree, gotta love those climbs! If you're training for cross country racing, Afton is probably the best place around here for pure cardio-bursting climbing.

I don't think Afton has been as popular because of the drive time and most riders around here don't want to suffer that much. Most of my friends would rather go to Leb/River Bottoms/Terrace Oaks because it's easier on them.

[dejorn]

I seem to have rejuvenated an old thread, cool. I don't have a problem paying the $7.00 for a trail pass. We all know how difficult it is to find places to ride and Afton is opening up their land as a service to the mountain biking community. I would like to see some more trail developed especially sustainable technical sections. I see good things in the future for Afton, but we need to support those efforts by riding there more. I think one main reason people don't ride at Afton, is that they don't want to get their A** kicked by the climbs. I personally need to be "ready", both physically and mentally, for a days ride at Afton. I will say that a strong ride at Afton does wonders for your recovery time. :geek:

[FSSS]

Oh, and before asking the same questions over and over read the old posts.

Is it me or have some of the older Afton threads disappeared???

I thought I remember Seberly posting that Afton would like more help from MORC, if someone would step up and become the Trail Steward. I just can't find the thread.

[EmL34]

Wait a minute! That's probably due to the fact (at least to some minor degree) that 43% of those polled, probably helped to build the Lebanon Hills trail. ...hmmm. There's a lesson in here somewhere.:p

Any word on further work to be done by MORC at Afton this season?

Food for thought.

Or could it be that John took the survey 137 times.

[seberly]

I think threads do eventually dissapper - but from the thread below called "Why no chair lifts?" this is the quote:

"Maybe you guys already help out all over the metro but Afton needs you as well, why don't you get involved - I know that a MORC trail steward at Afton would be welcomed by the management please contact me directly to discuss at seberly@att.net or 952 201 6294 if you or a group of you might be interested in this opportunity I will coordinate contacts at Afton."

This is still true - lots of talk and little action from the MTB community in the Afton area. I also agree with the quotes below that folks don't ride there because it is difficult (read hilly) terrain - maybe some of the folks whining about Murphy should go to Afton......

So, who is signing up for this years 24 hours? New site coming in a few days.

[FSSS]

Thanks seberly - I knew I read it somewhere.

[manual63]

Take it one step further shad and don't call on MORC/MOCA/IMBA (or Afton for that matter) to do it...step up to the plate yourself and approach them...or do some research and get me all the info you think necassary to approach them and I'll do it. Lots of talk and no do, gets you right where you were before...nowhere


L8R
Buck

I agree, but I am pretty busy like many people. I do trailwork when I can and try to get involved as I can, like writing software for the Leb Time Trial race. So, someone else is gonna have to take this one up......I can always go to Steeplechase......:)

[dejorn]

I think we as a MTB community really need to put some effort towards Afton. I have a hard time believing that location is a problem in terms of getting people to help out. Afton is fairly close to quite a few large cities (Woodbury, Cottage Grove, Hastings, ect.) so there should be the support. I now live in Hutchinson, MN but would gladly come out to help do some trail work to get Afton back in shape.



At this point in time Afton has the "greatest" potential to become the best mountain bike location in the state. The general layout of the trail is good, the climbs are great.



MORC is doing a fantastic job working with the various counties and park authorities to gain access to more sites, but we have a situation here where someone is asking for help and we also need to respond.



I think that there is some negative sentiment towards Afton due to the $7.00 trail fee, especially because we don't see any improvements in the trail system. Let’s think about it from Aftons point of view. They are opening themselves up to a fair amount of liability for very little reward. Keep in mind that they are a business and not support by tax dollars in any way. I personally would love to see the parking lot fully of cars and trucks with bike racks in the near future. If mountain biking continues to grow at this rate we will NEED a place like Afton to absorb those numbers.



Let me know where I can help.

[Adam Hjelle]

So, who is signing up for this years 24 hours? New site coming in a few days.

I think I might have a team to sign up for the 24 of Afton, not confirmed yet. Also considering 24 of 7 mile in Wausau. We have never done a 24 hour race, so if anyone has any suggestions on which to do first it would be a great help.

[bolmsted]

I think I might have a team to sign up for the 24 of Afton, not confirmed yet. Also considering 24 of 7 mile in Wausau. We have never done a 24 hour race, so if anyone has any suggestions on which to do first it would be a great help.

Well, I would go and ride afton first and then decide. If you measure total vertical feet climber per lap at afton it is comparable to a lot of trails in the mountains. This is a bit of a shock to us flatlander midwesterners so over 24 hours it takes a lot out of you. However, when you start to get in pretty good form, it is the best rush to ride at afton. My wife doesn't really mtb bike. She hung out in our camp last year at the 24 hours of afton and she was so amazed at that race course that she wanted to come ride it with me about a week after the race. We went and rode one lap there and it almost converted her to the sport. She now has a suspension fork on her Specialized Rockhopper and is looking forward to outtings at Theo Wirth Park, Lebanon, and a few other places. Granted; it takes my crew and me about 49-52 minutes on average to ride a lap at afton and it took Heather a few minutes under the 4 hour mark to ride one lap, and even after almost crying a couple times she was resolved to do it again someday along with other trails because the experience is so rad. I guess my point is that it is all in the mindset when riding there and you should try it out before deciding which 24 hour race would be better to do first. ...my .02

[The Goat Killer]

I like Afton cause it's more like the old time trails + it's dang hard work. One of the only places around the metro where "I" need the Granny gear. With some work the place would rule!

[dejorn]

They are going to work on the trails this Saturday May 21st. Afton needs as many bodies as possible. Come out and lend a hand.

[trogolodyte16]

My wife doesn't really mtb bike. She hung out in our camp last year at the 24 hours of afton and she was so amazed at that race course that she wanted to come ride it with me about a week after the race. We went and rode one lap there and it almost converted her to the sport. She now has a suspension fork on her Specialized Rockhopper and is looking forward to outtings at Theo Wirth Park, Lebanon, and a few other places. ... and even after almost crying a couple times she was resolved to do it again someday along with other trails because the experience is so rad. I guess my point is that it is all in the mindset when riding there and you should try it out before deciding which 24 hour race would be better to do first. ...my .02

At least she was converted - unlike my better half's MTB experience at Hillside, she hasn't ridden off-road since! :laugh::embarass: